Once upon a time in a universe far, far away, HipHopDX used to host blogs. Through Meka, Brillyance, Aliya Ewing and others, readers got unfiltered opinions on the most current topics in and beyond Hip Hop. After a few years, a couple redesigns and the collective vision of three different Editors-In-Chief, blogs are back. Sort of. Since our blog section went the way of two-way pagers and physical mixtapes, Twitter, Instagram and Ustream have further accelerated the pace of current events in Hip Hop. Rappers beef with each other 140 characters at a time, entire mixtapes (and their associated artwork) can be released via Instagram, and sometimes these events require a rapid reaction.
As such, we’re reserving this space for a weekly reaction to Hip Hop’s current events. Or whatever else we deem worthy. And the “we” in question is myself, Andre Grant and Ural Garrett. Collectively we serve as HipHopDX’s Features Staff. Aside from tackling stray topics, we may invite artists and other personalities in Hip Hop to join the conversation. Without further delay, here’s this week’s “Stray Shots.”
Why Does Eminem Find Himself On The Outside Of Many Top 5s?
Ural: The phrase “Top 5” in terms of Hip Hop is so relative to personal taste that getting everyone in agreement is simply impossible. There are too many variables that some emphasize over another. Do sales, critical acclaim, reach, skill-set, influence on the culture or even relatability trump each other? Nope, it’s all about what one sees as important. Then there’s personal bias. Age, ethnicity, sex and even socio-economic status all factor into what determines one’s upper tier. In Chris Rock’s case, club appeal is essential; an honest reason for not placing Eminem within his most coveted list. With cultural appropriation being a major discussion point currently, it’s easy to use the race angle when criticizing his argument. Then again, this is the same guy who counts “High Plains Drifter” as the greatest song ever made. With that said, there may be a hint of truth to Rock’s dismissal of Eminem. No matter how iconic Marshal Mathers has been to Hip Hop, the shear lack of club records has always been his achilles heel.
Considering Em’s background in battle rap, it makes total sense. His lyrical focus has always been about delivering sharp bars that linger. This is how he’s able swing from poignant narratives like “Stan” to savage shit-talking of “Right For Me.” That doesn’t necessarily mean he can’t write a catchy pop-hook from time to time however. Just means that making dance centered raps aren’t his forte. Totally fine as he can probably care less. At this point in his storied career, Slim Shady doesn’t plan on catering to that section of Hip-Hop anytime soon. Like many Hip-Hop greats, he understands his best strengths while negating those less than glaring weaknesses. Most rap fans are hopefully intelligent enough to understand expectations but, in the sad reality of social media and comment sections, clear logic is almost always thrown out the window. For Em and Rock, it’s not a concern for either.
Andre: Eminem is an iconic figure in Hip Hop history. His rhyme schemes are often complex and multi-layered, and he’s never strayed from scathing social commentary, sardonic, often murderous humor and deeply personal and personality driven lyrics about any number of issues. His two alters (Slim Shady and Marshall Mathers) are like watching twin suns rise and set in a binary solar system of Rap. But his place in the often ornery culture he completely dominated in the 2000s continues to be fraught.
On the one side is close friend and superstar in his own right 50, who might consider Em’ the greatest emcee of all time. He says as much here in an interview with Music Choice: “It is what it is. You can get like whoever you think is the best Black artist and stand them face-to-face in a room with Em and he will eat that [guy] alive.” That may or may not be true, but there’s a reason Nas’ line on “Ether” resonated so much when he squalled, “And Eminem murdered you on your own shit!” The first time I heard that line, it was like Nas was screaming at Jay in my High School hallway and Em’ was the kid with the black hoodie on passing by and smirking. He never talked to anyone but nobody ever messed with him, and for good reason.
You can see why. His grave of felled lyrical opponents is as wide as it is deep, but is that the only thing that counts when it comes to this genre? Rock brought up being able to, ahem, rock a party when he thinks about his top 5, and I have to be honest when I say I’ve only heard “Superman” played in a club context with Em’. As a pure lyricist, he’s an assassin, shifting and changing in a shadowy dark. And as a song maker, his brand of angry, menacing lethality is unrivaled in Hip Hop (maybe only to N.W.A or the advent of trap). He’s definitely sold a metric ton of records and affected every inch of the culture. Being in a top 5 is a highly subjective marker, too, and some people may hesitate to give the guy his credit. Whatever the case, to a wide group of Hip Hop fans, Em’ being in their top 5 is an absolute no brainer. And if Rakim thinks you’re one the greatest, maybe you just have to lean on that.
Funkmaster Flex Actually Got Dipset Back Together, But What Can We Expect?
Andre: After lying up awake at night wondering, hoping, that Dipset would finally, finally, finally get back together, the person to make it happen isn’t Dame Dash but Funkmaster Flex. I guess it’s not really that bizarre. Dame has been on the outs with one or more members of the family for some length of time since the fall of Roc-A-Fella and his beef with Jim Jones has been well reported upon, with their back and forths garnering significant attention. What’s the disconnect? It makes you wonder, because he’s spent most of 2014 talking about culture vulturing — something that became a significant talking point at the end of the year with Iggy Azalea and now Macklemore giving their recent reactions. The deaths of Eric Garner and Michael Brown heard nary a peep out of the Harlem mogul. So I can’t help but think that all this non-activity has something do with something else entirely.
Here’s the thing, is it too late? I mean what can we expect out of the first big reunion of 2015. Will the ferocious energy be there, or will we get a sort of Tribe Called Quest situation, where members of the group intermittently fight just before heading on stage to satisfy fans expectations? I’d like nothing more than the supergroup from the 2000s to get their swagger back up there, together. And, as a one off, it’s nothing more if not exciting. But with Cam’ announcing Purple Haze 2 will be his last solo record and the infighting continuing to brew between Dame and Jim, I’m holding my expectations close to the hip. That is, as long as they don’t annihilate a 2015 version of “I Really Mean It.” Then I may have to jump in.
Ural: Through the infinite magic of Funkmaster Flex, supposedly Harlem’s own Dipset will be reuniting for an upcoming mixtape and tour. The ultimate questions are: How concrete is the reunion and does anyone care enough? Those keeping score should count this as one of several attempts at this point. For right now, fans are more likely to take a wait-and-see approach because the last thing they want is January 2016 to begin with another Dipset reunion story. Then there are the internal rifts within the group itself. Can Cam’ron, Juelz Santana, Freekey Zekey and Jim Jones get along long enough to actually come together for a full body of work? Maybe age has finally matured them.
But, this is 2015 and around ten years since the release of Diplomatic Immunity and even less time since its sequel. Harlem Hip-Hop has changed considerably. For one, A$AP Mob could be considered spiritual heirs to their throne and Azealia Banks controlled a major conversation in 2014. Juelz Santana’s output over the past years have been sub-par at best, Freekey Zekey spent too much time in jail to even launch semi-successful a solo career and Jim Jones may forever be known as the one-hit wonder who got a second chance at fame through reality television. De Facto leader Cam’ron has at least had some noticeable projects and most successful career post-Dipset. From selling ebola mask to working with A-Trak, Killa seems to be having a blast regardless of Dipset’s status.
Andre Grant is an NYC native turned L.A. transplant that has contributed to a few different properties on the web and is now the Features Editor for HipHopDX. He’s also trying to live it to the limit and love it a lot. Follow him on Twitter @drejones.
Ural Garrett is an Los Angeles-based journalist and HipHopDX’s Senior Features Writer. When not covering music, video games, films and the community at large, he’s in the kitchen baking like Anita. Follow him on Twitter @Uralg.
To be honest I don’t give a damn wu names Eminem in their top 5, because every other brilliant Lyricist namely “Rakim Nas Jay Crooked say Eminem is the best they’ve ever heard….. There’s an interview where Kendrik Lamar says He was flattered excited and nervous at the same time when Eminem called him to get on the track Love Game because I quote “EMINEM IS A WIZARD”
Eminem’s Top 5 problem? It’s weird to think that this actually might be somethihn ya’ll talk about in the HIPHOPDX offices. Eminem being in some random top 5 list is the most irrelevant thing I can think of, but I’m glad you guys made this supposed “problem” up for this post.
Yo Em gets mad respect from Rakim, KRS-One, Nas,LL Cool J and other legends and thats all he asked for in this game “respect” if gets accepted by those guys who cares who puts him in the top 5 he got legends backing him.
I agree with Loco211, I watch a lot of interviews and I would estimate about 85-90% of the rappers that are listed on everyone’s top five considers Em a Lyrical Beast, so what his peers say holds way more water than what anyone throws their top five out there has to say. First of all it is subjective and based on personal taste. I could make several top five list based on different categories of Rap/Hip Hop. First thing that I would ask someone about their top five is what is the list based on? Album Sales, Popularity, popular club song, or is it Lyricism, content, story telling, technicality, concerts, merchandise, street cred, you get the idea. I am a Old School Hip Hop head, DJ (retired)lol, crate digger and I love all music for different reasons and I don’t hate on anything, unlike most people, if they don’t like something, it must be wrong and not good…….That’s funny. When I think rap, I think Lyricism, content, story telling and so on. Race should never have anything to do with it, you LISTEN to music………..You either like it or you don’t. Best to everyone……..Peace.
Couldn’t agree more
Em is a dope MC but we never got to see his best. He souled out for the money so we never got to see him on real beats going for broke… I remember em before Dre got to him and made him a commercial house hold name. He was dope when he was underground but I hated all his music since then….Bad quests and corny pop hooks don’t do it for real hip hop fans………
What are the criteria that make u a real hip hop fan
Dope MC bad beat and souled out for pop dreams….. We never saw his best ! His music ended up being very corny and top 40 !
Chris Rocks qualifications for an emcee can kiss my ass. Club hits? Nah bro you ain’t no real rap head. Anyone who doesn’t have Em in there top 5 is a salty racist.
I’m far from a racist and Eminem is not in my top 5. There are many better MCs than him both past and present.
Eminem is the greatest rapper alive, statistically, and where does DX take that he is not on top 5? Most rappers place him as their top 5, so your sources are carbage or you have not done your research. Also, it is irrelevant, factually speaking, Eminem is the greatest lyricist of all time.
DX and this shit fiction, pathetic.
While I do think that Eminem has a ton of skill and is a beast, he isn’t in my top 5 either. And it’s not for the bullshit reasons that he’s not in Chris Rock’s top 5. I just think that there are better all-around MCs who have put out better music. Eminem’s early music was much better than his music released in the last 6 years or so. I’m actually having a hard time thinking of who my Top 5 would be. There’s just so much criteria needed to determine it. Like talent-wise, Pharoahe Monch would be in my Top 5 lyricists of all time…but I don’t know if he’d make it in my Top 5 overall. It’s a tough question. Black Thought might make it in there. He has everything: Diversity of subject matter, longevity, various different styles, flow, classic material, wordplay, etc.
How come Ice Cube isn’t in many people’s Top 5? How come Scarface isn’t in many people’s Top 5? FOH with that other crap.
everyones top 5 is different there is no right answer certain mc’s just appeal to your personality or mindset mine be in any order
Styles P
Jadakiss
Nas
Ghosface Killah and the 5th one can change all the time but I fucks with Eminem Beanie sigel Immortal Technique Lloyd Banks Cormega
Your 100 percent on point!!!!
1. Biggie
2. Eminem
3. Jay-Z
4. Nas
5. Rakim
looks like he’s in my top 5, yup. Before other people start bitching, keep in mine that this is MY top 5, not yours.
i’m white and i agree with your list but i’d put em after rakim at no.5
Good list.
Eminem is around 14th on my list. Definitely one the greatest of all time. 1. Biggie, 2. Rakim, 3. Krs one, 4. Nas, 5. Jay-z (1995-2005)
In 2004, Chris Rock told Jay Leno that “The world is coming to an end…the best golfer is a black guy and the best rapper is a white guy.” Rock also gushed admiration over the song “Till I Collapse feat. Nate Dogg. Coincidentally, Em had a a few tracks with Nate and they were all had “club appeal”. If he was the best 10 years ago, who’s been better than Em ever was, since?
No other rapper!And ricky Ross is so fake!
It’s about skill not just making people dance in a club. Not every rapper who makes good club records are good lyrically (Escp by today’s standards). The fact that the above people can even talk about a rappers content is rare. What are rappers talking about today other than the streets?
Maybe in the early 2000s You can say club songs are better. But they are becoming a thing of the past.
LL Cool j said it best ” a bunch of washed up rappers need a wash up ‘Dipset its over !
Top 5, isn’t these mainstream rappers. 5, jadakiss 4,method or busta 3, dmx 2, Nas 1,2pac
Look, I may not be a huge fan of Eminem anymore but I will say this…..HipHop does not have to be about club music. And that is not the reason he is not top 5 to other rappers.
The reason is because nobody wants to admit that he is the most successful rapper of all time when it comes to sales and critical reception(for his first 3 albums anyway)
Em isn’t what he used to be. That being said 97-2003 Em is an unrivaled run in hiphop. Not one bad song. Domination of sales. Dominated everything. Dude was a beast. It’s not like he’s bad now but he can top what he did. He will forever have to beat himself, and that’s all he’s compared to really.
Better then biggie 1993-1997? Don’t think so.
Was the biggest rapper in the game from when he started to when he died.
Only snoop rivalled him. And 2pac to a lesser extent.
Relating “club bangers” to make someone in the GOAT conversation is fucking retarded. If Hypnotize is your favorite Biggie song and Big Pimpin is your favorite Jay song – go kill yourself.
Top 5, in no particular order,
LL Cool J: Never gets his credit for ushering 80s hip hop into the mainstream. The guy dropped a few questionable albums later in his career but never went wood with none of em. Yo, I think I went as LL for Halloween as a kid every year for 5 years straight – that’s influence.
Eminem: Illest wordplay MC to ever touch the mic. The guy has sold around 200 million records. Everybody says he gets props because he is white. I say he gets props DESPITE being white. I’ll be honest – you gotta be a straight animal on the mic to be white and get any credit in the hip hop game. Em is a fucking animal.
Jay Z: Most consistent rapper of all time. I honestly think Hov can and will drop gems past the age of 50.
Nas: If Nas isn’t in your Top 5, go kill yourself. In my opinion, the greatest NY MC of all-time. That says it all.
Pac: I always put Pac in front of BIG or Rakim even though I think both of em are better lyricists than Pac. Pac is a cultural icon though. Pac to Rap is like Elvis to Rock-n-Roll or Bob Marley to Reggae. Yeah there are better Rock-n-Roll artists than Elvis and better Reggae artists than Bob but none more influential to the culture.
There are obvious arguments for Big, Rakim, Slick Rick, Ice Cube, etc. Kendrick and Cole are coming up quick too.
Truth, great assessment regarding the top 5. I would agree with you
“Nas: If Nas isn’t in your Top 5, go kill yourself. In my opinion, the greatest NY MC of all-time. That says it all. Pac: I always put Pac in front of BIG or Rakim even though I think both of em are better lyricists than Pac. Pac is a cultural icon though.”
Nas is my favorite lyricist and probably the most consistent and lyrical rapper of all time. Pac the most influential rapper and my favorite rap artist. Definitely Pac can help you get through some troubled times.
Different strokes for different folks. Grow up everyone’s entitled to their own opinion
I get Chris Rock’s point, but let’s be honest….how many club bangers does Nas have?
The funny thing is, every club banger Nas put out, people took it as he tried to cross over…know one respected it.
Nas is my favorite rapper but his greatness isn’t in his “hitmaking” / club bangers…If that’s the case then why is Em being measured to that standard? Below is my list:
1. 2pac- Like Truth said…Pac is a cultural icon. The Elvis, Bob, Beatles of Hip-Hop.
2. Biggie- The most complete rapper of all time. Flow, delivery, storytelling, songwriting, charisma, add in two Masterpieces.
3. Nas- The greatest lyricist of all time. After Rakim…Nas took lyricism to a new level, Whether illmatic is your favorite album of all time, you can’t deny it’s the most influential hip-hop album of all time! Name another rapper who’s celebrated an anniversary album for an entire year?
4. Jay-Z- The most consistent rapper of all time. From artist to President to CEO, Jay has had the greatest career any rapper has ever had.
5. Eminem- Rakim was number 5 until Em dropped Recovery in 2010. For Em to come back from his drug abuse and a sub-par comeback album in Relapse….he follows up by dropping his best album since The Eminem show. Also, Em has impacted the cultural longer then Rakim has.
Close 6
6. Rakim- paved the way for lyricist. Paid in Full-top 5 hip-hop album of all time.
how can u seriously put jay-z before rakim, jay- hasn’t dropped a good LP since american gangster and before that his last was the blueprint. jay tries to sound like rick ross and has nothing fresh at all out. he fell off long time ago jay dickriders didn’t get that. he is maybe top 15 but not even top 10, just overrated as fuck this camel.
I’ve always found it interesting that Eminem NOT been in someone’s top 5 is news, surely that in itself says a lot. It’s also interesting that it is taken as some kind of insult when Eminem succinctly addressed this issue 12 years ago on The Eminem Show (“I got a list, here’s the order of my list that it’s in/It goes Reggie, Jay-Z, Tupac and Biggie/Andre from OutKast, Jada, Kurupt, Nas and then me/But in this industry I’m the cause of a lot of envy/so when I’m not put on this list the shit does not offend me.”) A top 5 says just as much about the person compiling it as it does the artists chosen. It depends on personal tastes and what you look for in music. If Chris Rock prefers club music then Eminem probably wouldn’t make his top 50, let alone top 5. Personally my top 5 right now (note that I said “right now” and not “ever”) consists of Tech N9ne, Chino XL, Slaughterhouse, Hopsin and Prozak. That tells you that I value wordplay, intricate rhyme patterns and honesty. But that’s just me, we are all different. The other issue that comes up is that Black people can’t relate to the crazy shit Eminem talks about. I don’t see why this has to be a racial issue when Tech N9ne, Chino XL, Redman and DMX (amongst others) were already using off the wall metaphors and rapping about surreal subject matters before Em came on the scene. And just because I’m white doesn’t mean I can relate to killing my girlfriend. Likewise I can’t relate to selling drugs or growing in the projects but that doesn’t stop me from bumping Reasonable Doubt and Illmatic from time to time. I have loved hip hop since I was 12 years old (my first albums were R U Still Down by 2pac, Capital Punishment by Big Punisher and The Slim Shady LP by Eminem) but there are still a lot of double standards. All I’ll say is that whether it’s Eminem or any other MC, if they worked from the bottom up and paid their dues then they deserve that respect. I dislike Iggy as much as anyone else but let’s be honest, Rick Ross is just as fake yet doesn’t come under the same scrutiny. I just think that attitudes aren’t very consistent right now.