Earlier this week, Top Dawg Entertainment Captain Anthony “Top Dawg” Tiffith called out fans for not supporting ScHoolboy Q’s Kanye West assisted “THat Part.” In a series of Tweets, he voiced his frustrations with the single allegedly selling only 26,000 units in its first week. The music video itself has almost one million views already a day after being released on Thursday. Though the track has hit 81,000 Soundcloud streams and five million Spotify plays, that wasn’t enough for Tiffith.
Kendrick Lamar has become the label’s largest success story for sure. However, the rest of TDE has yet to find similar success despite significant gains over the years. Taking time to discuss, HipHopDX Managing Editor Trent Clark, Senior Features Writer Ural Garrett and Contributing Writer William Ketchum answers if the entity that gave birth to Black Hippy can truly strike gold again.
Is King Kendrick’s Popularity Overshadowing The Rest Of TDE?
Ural: Before crossing over into mainstream, there was a moment in time where being up on TDE meant being apart of the cool club. The idea of Black Hippy alone was an exciting prospect. Jay Rock, Ab-Soul, ScHoolboy Q and Kendrick Lamar felt like a lyrical powerhouse with a following that hadn’t been seen on the West Coast in quite some time. Watching the chips fall into play became a sight to behold around 2011. Rock, Ab-Soul and K.Dot dropped independent juggurnaunt debuts. By 2012, ScHoolboy Q landed TDE their first legitimate radio hit with “Hands on the Wheel” from Habits & Contradictions before signing a lucrative deal with Interscope and Aftermath. As the year ended, King Kendrick shook-up Hip Hop with the decade’s first undisputed major label classic good kid m.A.A.d city.
An unavoidable problem with labels revolving around Hip Hop is that competition comes from within as well as outside. As the following year rolled around, Kendrick just started to outwork and outrap everyone, including his labelmates. This could have become a problem for everyone else. More notably when Soul had an issue with the “Kendrick Lamar & Black Hippy” headline from the October/November 2013 issue of XXL. Didn’t help that after numerous complaints from the Black Lipped Bastard about delays on social media, These Days flopped. 2014 became a good year for ScHoolboy Q as Oxymoron sold around 139,000 copies and became large enough to be considered a success.
Fast forward to present day, Lamar’s To Pimp a Butterfly managed to be an even bigger event than his previous album and he transcends to rap mega stardom. The same year, Jay Rock found himself only selling 18,713 copies in his first week for 90059 Despite phenomenal signings including Isaiah Rashad and SZA, both haven’t necessarily set the world on fire either. If “THat Part” isn’t as successful as many would have hoped, blaming the fans isn’t going to increase sales either. There are plenty of other reasons as well from Ye’s shoddy verse to where the market is at the moment.
That doesn’t mean that TDE is having any trouble. They’re just going through the motions of trying to have another successful act on par with K. Dot. That challenge isn’t any different than any other label, regardless of genre. What we’re witnessing is the maturation of artists going in separate career directions. Does this mean we’ll ever get the Black Hippy album? Who knows? For all we know, the recent signing of Lance Skiiiwalker or that other unannounced signing could possibly lead to next huge success on par with Lamar.
William E. Ketchum III: During what seemed to be TDE’s winning streak between 2011 and 2014, the members’ bond seemed truly inseparable, artistically and otherwise. Ab-Soul gave a brilliant epilogue to Section.80 with an outro that summed up its stories and gave thought to the album’s themes and messages. Kendrick, Ab-Soul and Schoolboy Q used storylines on their albums that integrated with each other. Schoolboy Q revealed that Kendrick Lamar handles the sequencing for his albums; and in the YouTube video where the TDE family let Kendrick hear Jay Z’s verse on “Bitch Don’t Kill My Vibe” remix, a snippet of the crew hyping out to Q’s “Yay Yay” preceded the main event, making fans go crazy asking for the rest of the song. And perhaps most importantly, the group toured together; my best TDE memory was seeing the crew perform at the BET Music Matters tour in the months preceding the release of good kid, m.A.A.d. City.
Labelmates support each other with tweets and guest appearances all the time, but with TDE, it felt different. That immovable synergy made the group feel special: if you supported one, it truly felt like you were supporting the whole TDE family and its mission.
But as with most groups, individual interests take over sooner or later. Kendrick Lamar obviously catapulted to a different stratosphere that no one, including his TDE cohorts, could keep up with. On To Pimp a Butterfly, Kendrick’s synergy with his band seemed to take the priority, and none of the Black Hippy members were on the album. Ab-Soul publicly complained about the delayed release date of his album, and once we heard These Days, we saw why: the consensus said the project was several notches below the high standard he set with Control System, and that TDE had set with previous releases. To many, that may have been the first sign of a chink in TDE’s armor: they were just as capable of having unhappy artists and weak albums as anyone else, and seeing one artist seem to put himself before the crew was disconcerting.
Trent: What we’re simply seeing isn’t a TDE issue nor is it a quality issue. I’ll be the first to admit that These Days was hardly Control System but it wasn’t bad. It held me down in the gym, allowing me to get extra reps in focusing in on Soulo’s intricate wordplay. But I’ll digress back to Top’s point.
There simply aren’t enough fans who care enough to build up their catalog to bolster the commercial interest in the type of music TDE excels in. As a teenager, Master P’s modus operandi of releasing music on No Limit Records made me a general fan (and consumer by his grand design) of lesser known artists on the roster. Sensible logic should have told us that being in a digital era where actual MC’s such as Kendrick, J. Cole and Chance the Rapper (in terms of free downloads) are going platinum, that would trickle down into the Powers That Be’s marketing campaign, but the fan’s actions speak louder than all the perfect rating tallies of To Pimp a Butterfly.
Fans who counterpointed Top saying “‘THat Part’ wasn’t that good’ or “ScHoolboy Q should just release his album” all have valid complaints but they also have to step back and see the big picture. We’re talking about a truly independent record label with from California who saw their third option catapult into a global phenomenon. You have to allow that situation to get its proper shine, which as we have seen, comes at the sacrifice of all the artists on the label. Isaiah Rashad’s Cilvia Demo was fantastic. You don’t think everybody on the roster wants to see a follow-up like yesterday? But there is a reason why a song like “Collard Greens” is more readily accessible in your memory than a “Shot You Down.” It’s called radio programming and that shit is expensive and almost always reserved for the major label budgets.
And again, there simply aren’t enough fans who would gravitate towards a more streamlined Hip Hop sound with monetary support to make these type of rollouts that more common. Any way you sniff it, Kendrick has hype on his side (I’m still perturbed at Taylor Swift’s “don’t touch me” tweet; I could write an entire Stray Shots dedicated to just that) and if you want to see the same results rise up within the mainstream (I don’t know why “fans” care so much about this), then you simply have to band together and support. With dollars. On iTunes. Or Amazon. THat’s the point Top is making.
All the grassroots route labels like TDE, Funk Volume, Strange, Odd Future, even Shady Records at the moment have this issue. Only flagship artists moving real units.
Can’t deny or hate on your comment that’s one hundred real talk ! Was really looking fwd to this new Q album but he waited to long and what he has dropped has been weak compared to his last album which is a classic.
The real problem is that most of he artist are shifting to a mainstream sound. TDE ended up striking gold by making legit hiphop. Not insane beats, just classical rap beats, with groovy oldschool lines. Now, kendrick is pushing the limit, which is good and bad. Schoolboy Q found a totally diff niche, outside of oldschool rap. Jay rocks new album wasn’t anything like his other albums. Not many bangers, which is what he made his career on. Absouls “these days” was too drugged up, reminded me more of a Mac miller album, yet control system was gold! The group has all gone in different directions. Just listen to “zip that chop that” by black hippy. That’s what made them succesful. Simple, rap that brings us back to the golden age! Now they are overproduced radio singles.
I can’t wait for sza, ab-soul, and isaiah rashads albums. Sza’s growth on 2am has me fiendin. With these days album cover it seemed like soulo was going to go in hard with controversial cuts but ended making a bunch of forgetable songs. The songs did the album cover no justice. Although he is completely capable of making another monster classic like control system but better. I will support that. Jay rocks album sounds like school boy q and ab-soul had a baby. I like it tho. Rashad is the shit. Not no #1 but it could be the jam. Kendrick lamar is the only one besides sza and rashad who moves past the trending and creates his own lane with important meaningful music. In the end, people still want conscious music. TDE 2016
This is quite simple : the song s*cks hard! Wack a** generic beat with an annoying Kanye. And you expect this BS to sell?? LMFAO.
kendrick overshadowing the rest of them shouldn’t be a problem. no label can stay in business without a golden goose. people don’t buy records now, plain and simple. especially when you claim to represent the counter-culture and the anti-mainstream. unless you establish and position yourself at the top of the game like kendrick, cole, drake and a few others, it will always be an uphill battle. with that said, jay rock’s album last year was one of the dopest albums that was overlooked by the public.
@smartcasms
its absurd. The reason the song didnt sell was cuz was the song isnt that dope. i like Schoolboy Q but u gotta come with that heat. I listened and I was like “meh”. Drake be dropping like 20 singles the past 4 months and even him, half the time they are meh – no real impact. U cant expect every song to work.
No because they make us wait 3 years for isiahs album
Song was trash lol. We aren’t going to buy something we don’t like. And who are they to say it’s lack of support lol I like apples but I’m not going to buy a rotten apple just because it’s an apple
I agree wit dat
How about the simple fact that TDE only has ONE star: Kendrick Lamar. The others have talent but no where near Kendrick’s level. He has the creativity and the “special” factor that can’t be practiced, ah la Andre 3000.
The success that Q experienced with the first album was due to interest in the label (thanks to Kendrick) and him having the major label support. Although he is still signed to Interscope, my gut tells me that the label is watching, waiting, and seeing what TRUE value Q has. Translation: They aren’t working his records to shelving out the doe like the first album. Mix that with the fact that his stuff is mediocre and you have exactly what we see.
TDE keeps signing more artists but the people (and media) are really just hear to see Kendrick.
why are you perturbed about Taylor’s tweet? lol.
yeah, but Kendrick’s starting to look weird
attention ural: schoolboy never signed to aftermath (I’ll put this down to a typo, you probably meant k.dot) but GKMC certainly was not this decades first undisputed rap classic (MBDTF – 2010). get your shit straight.
It’s going to take more than Q yelling adlibs to producers to keep (yeah that part!) for sells to get better. The gimmick is to blantant.
The song is wack. That’s why we aren’t buying it
The answer to this TDE “problem” is simple evolution. Kendrick is successfully evolving his musical content to catch ears from both underground and mainstream fans, similar to how Andre 3000 and the “old” Kanye made music. Unfortunately other TDE artist simply aren’t evolving their music at a fast enough rate to keep up with fan demand and Kendrick’s success. From a revenue perspective, Kendrick the solo artist is more desirable for commercial bookings than the TDE collective. In the end…follow the money.
I’m indifferent toward TDE. Having said that, I foundthis piece difficult to read. It is so poorly written. The authors, namely, Trent, just did a really poor job articulating his position.
Anthony top dawg….u sound like a lil boy complaining about shit. That school boy qsingleis fucking trash. Why we gotta buy..kus kanye on it? Fuck that.
Lets get that school boy q shit we got on his last album. Not abullshit trap beat with wack ass choruses. Schoolboy better than that. He a west coast niggas need to learn to adapt while staying in their lane. Boso
Slow news day DX??? You know Ali passed away? Step your journalism skills up.
They have a post on fhe site…its in the slider. Step your reading skills up
Also they would have losers like you posting “ALI ISNT HIP HOP”
The stuff by the guys who aren’t Kendrick has not been that good. Ab Soul is an awesome rapper but he is not allowed to play to his strengths, so he’s neither commercial nor an artist any more. Very few rappers find the magic balance between artistry and commercial appeal. Kendrick is one of them. Jay Rock and Schoolboy have not had songs as good as Kendrick and other top rappers. If they did, people would buy the single. It’s not great for the label boss to be complaining about poor sales. It’s embarrassing. He needs to look in the mirror. It’s not the fan’s fault if they don’t go for it…
The biggest mistake they made was by not putting out a Black Hippy album after Kendrick’s first charted success. I wonder who was responsible for making such an error. I say this because we’ve had great examples from the past Eminem / D12, 50 / G Unit, Nelly / St. Lunatics, etc. even though these artists came to their respective greatness’ during a different era, the formula has been proven to be successful. It allows for a type of cross promotion amongst label/artist/fanbase alike that would guarantee a solid future for each as a solo act. People for the most part have picked their favorites of the bunch, having them altogether would help in minimizing the marginalization that is currently taking place for their roster. As talented as Ab is I no longer think that this label is a good place for him anymore, it’s unfortunate but at times I feel like he’s become collateral damage. Not every move need be calculated, sometimes you just need to make the music available to the people and see from there. I think they also signed the other acts (Rashad, SZA) too soon, it certainly took the steam away from the entire Black Hippy movement/thought/topic. They’re all doing good but we want them to be GREAT.
HHDX tops themselves again with another stupid article. Where is the article about nobody other than Drake from OVO having success. Where is the article about only J Cole as the only artist with success under Jayz, while Jayz has been a record executive for 20 years? Think about it one success story in 20 years of being a record exec. That’s a topic that would be much more relevant than an article about this. HHDX hating cause Kendrick is bringing that real hip hop without selling out.
actually, they did do a piece on all the failures of jay z as an executive. i guess u missed tat one huh
Also none of those labels have talent like TDE.
Also Roc-A-Fella was a successful label…. if you’re going to count Jay-Z’s tenure as an exec to be “20 years” spanning, roc, def jam, and roc nation: Beanie Sigel, Freeway, Kanye, Rihanna, Rick Ross, Young Jeezy, J Cole have all been at some point or still are staples in hip-hop/pop culture…and also others I’m not even going to name who have had success because of Jay… your subjective point of view is skewing your objectivity…. I guess you’re gonna try to say both “20 years” and “but that was all Dame Dash” in your response? Which is it?
I found out about Kendrick through Jay Rock 1st album and Tech N9ne.
I cant stand “journalists” that call Kendrick Lamar “KING KENDRICK”. Stanning on Level 1000, that’s your king?… Stopped reading right there. Its so obvious what DX is doing they really do kiss butt in order to have a ‘relationship’ with these artists.
ANYWAY! I have no idea about TDE and back then I didnt have no idea about Kendrick Lamar or theblack hippy’s. Here in the midwest Jay Rock was known because of Tech N9ne(Tech also introduced Kendrick to Dr.Dre). Jay was ripping it, he even landed on GTA 5 soundtrack. I still didnt get his 2nd album I need to check that out. Kendrick cool though I like Section 80 the best. Stop kissing butt DX
Blame the Internet. Of course Kendrick is the front runner of the group but everyone in the group still gets love. It’s the Internet that has made sales go down. It’s easier than ever to download something, just look at the downloads for TLOP on its first week for piratebay. Everyone is turning to either streams or illegal downloads. Because why would someone buy an individual album for about $13 each when you could get all albums for $10 a month.
I’m a fan of all tde artists but that schoolboy q track was straight up garbage. Abc rap about bullshit. And they want us to buy shit like that? Mr dangeroo kippawaa must be out of his gdamn mind……
Tell schoolboy q to step his game up cause he can do more than that, allow ab soul to have more creative freedom and work on a solid black hippy album. Ain’t nobody wanna spend their hard earned money on bullshit….
Top dog has made some crucial mistakes, he should have dropped a black hippy album after GKMC or dropped a jay rock album. Top dawg keeps showing favortism to Q nobody really likes Q like that. It goes in this order Kendrick, Jay Rock, Rashad, SZA. After Kendrick contract with TDE is up interscope will take him completely away from TDE. Top dawg needs to make smarter moves, and don’t blame fans for not buying something maybe they don’t like it, just thank the fans that did show support.
“nobody really likes Q like that” What are you talking about Q is the second most famous and overall popular artist on TDE, I agree with everything your saying besides that.
That part was a mediocre song and cringe worthy at times. It’s not wonder that it didn’t sell. Lol.
release a shitty song, get shitty results. what an amazing concept.
we want ab-soul but tde aint giving us no ab-soul…. so a fuck tde, fucka kendrick and fucka q and his weak ass single….
Ab-Soul is the one who is getting the least spotlight, not Schoolboy Q.