Murs – I appreciate your breakdown particularly the Lauryn Hill and Pharacyde acknowledgments but sorry. I think there is just so much missing here. The bridge between R&B and hiphop has always been around despite that old hiphop think otherwise. R&B was always there, lingering in the background. For instance, some of the biggest hiphop songs even from hardcore groups like Wu-Tang or hiphop head favorites like De La Soul sampled old school or classic R&B. Plus hiphop artists were often featured on R&B tracks for the remix – something that isn’t mentioned or discussed here. I can’t believe u mention non-hiphop-head-approved Arrested Development and Mos Def with Nate Dogg as a pivotal moment. These were blips in my opinion plus Arrested Development sampled “Everyday People” which is funk group. Hiphop and funk have been meshed for years aka James Brown. The pivotal moments you missed for the 90s esp New York hiphop would be Biggie lending guest verses for Total and having other sick R&B features that rocked the clubs, Wu-Tang appearing with Jodeci, 2Pac with KI-Ci and most of all, Method Man teaming with Mary J Blige for “All I Need” which was a bridge between grimey hiphop and R&B. Even though, hiphop was separate from R&B, women liked R&B at the club and dudes like hiphop. Everyone danced and grooved to both..it’s a natural marriage that always intermingled, just like reggae. LOts of singing and rapping as seperate parts for : LL Cool J, TLC, Mary J Blige, Salt N Pepa, Biggie / Puffy , Jay-Z etc. But all that is forgivable…the biggest miss was not crediting Kanye West / Kid Cudi for Love Lockdown and then, not highlighting Drake clearly ushered in the era as it is so clear that all these artists sing-rapping are post-Drake artists copying his atmospheric backdrops and blending of sing-rapping. You can look at the charts pre-Drake and post-Drake and clearly Drake is one of the first artists to show serious lyrical skill and sing intermittently WHILE rapping. it’s his style that forced music execs to seek out clones. See “I’m on One”, “Wu-Tang Forever”, “November 18th” …tons of songs. He is the one who cemented this era – love him or hate him.
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You must have never heard of Missy, Lauren Hill, Bone thugs n harmony if you think drake was one of the first artist to show serious lyrical skill and sing while rapping. Their are others also like Andre 3k, devin the dude etc. This style has been cemented way before drake, To me drake follows, nobody using his style because he is too busy using others style, first he was using Lil waynes pattern and flow, then future, now he trying to jack these reggae cats. Drake reminds me of the 4 horseman from the 5 heartbeats movie, he goes around to that black crowd and communities to see whats popping, and then he takes it to the white crowd and gets more exposure because companies are spending way more money on it.
@ Truth. No real disagreement re devin the dude ( great example) and Andre 3000. And there are even others. I’m talking about the popularity started and the take over of this current style of sing-rapping seemed to dominate airwaves with Drake’s rise. When he started he was getting plenty of flack for it because his way of doing rap-singing was considered non hiphop and it was controversial. When Take Care dropped, a lot of hiphop heads wrote it off as a Sade-like easy listening album. Now when u listen to the radio, it all sounds like different versions of Drake’s particular style of sing-rapping and now even more so, singing and rapping is almost a requirement for any rapper these days…Plus Drake’s style and sound is way different than that of Lauryn Hill / Andre 3000. With Drake it’s hard to tell sometimes if he is singing or rapping at certain points. Lil Uzi Vert, 6Black, Bryson Tiller and Post Malone to me couldn’t have existed pre-Drake. As far as the whole “Drake stealing black culture” thing…well he is black so I don’t get that (I guess because he is light-skin or mixed, he’s getting flack for that?) and he is huge in the black community (all major artists are popular amongst blacks and whites to me)…if Drake was a dark skin dude and from some community considered “hood”, we wouldn’t be having this argument but whatever…I think he is a unique artist and didn’t sound like anyone else when he came out so I don’t agree – this is part of why he endured so much hatred…ever since the ghostwriting controversy… the new anti-Drake arguement became he is stealing black culture …anyways, to be honest, your not making it over a sustained period in the music industry without a unique distinct sound. Lil wayne to me is great but to me, very distinct from Drake. Every artist has influences. You could say Jay-z stole Biggie’s style then or the Wu-tang stole from the East-Asian community because of the Shaolin references…nothing exists in a vacumn …it’s a slippery slope
Because of the versatility and the use of the R&B style mixed with the harmonies was one to the reason I always preferred Outkast and bone over groups like Wu tang and mobb deep.
The cats in the 90’s use this style the best, I can remember the first time I heard Mariah Carey break down Ft Bone Thugs N Harmony, and they were singing with her on the hook that was really refreshing. Mariah mention once on 106th and park that she was influence by Bone Thugs N Harmony.
I think you’ve missed the biggest influence here namely ‘The Chronic’. Dr. Dre changed the game in so many aspacts with his stuff that’s crazy. One of these aspacts is he ‘watered down’ the violent gangsta rhymes with smooth rnb hooks. Nobody has done it before him. The other HNIC was Timbaland who made complete rnb songs on his album with a few rap-like adlibs. Moreover he set off Missy’s career that is still one of the greatest and most creative female hiphop/rnb acts. Murs, I like most of your stuff, you’re a great MC, but next time please look up things more accurately. Truly yours.
The Chronic did take it to another level, but they were already doing that style at Ruthless Records before death row came around. Guys like Kokane, Above the law were mainly the orginators of that style but they didn’t get the credit because they were not mainstream, Dre stole that style from those producers at Ruthless during his transition to death row, put it out and got the majority of credit for it. Dre also took credit for a lot of production on death row that was done by daz, dj quik.
Bone really slammed that shit in for the Midwest not to mention they took on like 4-5 solid groups and won. Krit should use this style more, listen to vent when he starts singing.
ice cube was one of the fakest hardest rappers ever, That way back when track hits too hard I can barely listen to it to many memories type of song that punches you in the stomach in heart.
I remember Rza getting on the radio show and saying that Bone thugz and Diddy wasn’t hiphop , then I remember later that Year Bone Thugz won Best Hiphop Artist over Wu tang at the 1998 American Music Awards, Blending Rap and Rnb made it 10x better we got and get amazing music out of it.
Yea to you maybe, BTNH is way more versatile then Tribe called quest. I actually listen to both, If you think their style gets irritating then you most likely don’t listen to them in depth. People that don’t listen to entire albums of these guys just think they rap fast from start to end, not true their aren’t many groups in rap with more styles than Bone and sorry TCQ is def not one of them. TCQ was pretty good for about a 6 year stretch and then became very inconsistent with content and solo wise that don’t have much done. Bone has been pretty decent for about a 20 year stretch from 1994 up until now they are still making decent music and killing tours. Solo wise Bone has a lot more content out there, better collabs, TCQ a good group but BTNH is on another level, Bone thugs were selling way more records and had the attention of way more people then TCQ and it was because their style was refreshing and really never done before. My favorite Player ever was Paul Pierce, but just because he was my fav doesn’t mean I don’t recognize that Lebron and Kobe were better, you have to have clarity, like what are you base it on to put TCQ before Bone Thugs??? Lyrical ability is the only category they can compete with BTNH in, Style goes to Bone, Flow goes to Bone, Record sales goes to Bone, classic songs goes to Bone, Best tours goes to Bone, and most of all Longevity goes to Bone. I respect TCQ, But show them St. Clair cats some love to they deserve it IMO.
Nelly was terrible ja rule songs were very catchy and I was feeling ja songs got crazy replay value that song he did with lil mo the songs he did with ashanti and the ones with charlie baltimore and vito. Nate dogg and warren g didn’t get a chance to do a lot but what they did was amazing fugees was my shit but if you watch them perform and during interviews they never had chemistry outside of the songs or at least it seemed that way i felt like they would break up fast. Bone had the style, voices and flow music that has harmony and rnb mixed has way better replay value for some reason to me.
i like this topic but when that comment on the east coast came with the Fugees.. what about Mary J. Blige whom started her career as a rapper who transitioned to R&B..
people got tired of payin songstresses to do their hooks
Murs – I appreciate your breakdown particularly the Lauryn Hill and Pharacyde acknowledgments but sorry. I think there is just so much missing here. The bridge between R&B and hiphop has always been around despite that old hiphop think otherwise. R&B was always there, lingering in the background. For instance, some of the biggest hiphop songs even from hardcore groups like Wu-Tang or hiphop head favorites like De La Soul sampled old school or classic R&B. Plus hiphop artists were often featured on R&B tracks for the remix – something that isn’t mentioned or discussed here. I can’t believe u mention non-hiphop-head-approved Arrested Development and Mos Def with Nate Dogg as a pivotal moment. These were blips in my opinion plus Arrested Development sampled “Everyday People” which is funk group. Hiphop and funk have been meshed for years aka James Brown. The pivotal moments you missed for the 90s esp New York hiphop would be Biggie lending guest verses for Total and having other sick R&B features that rocked the clubs, Wu-Tang appearing with Jodeci, 2Pac with KI-Ci and most of all, Method Man teaming with Mary J Blige for “All I Need” which was a bridge between grimey hiphop and R&B. Even though, hiphop was separate from R&B, women liked R&B at the club and dudes like hiphop. Everyone danced and grooved to both..it’s a natural marriage that always intermingled, just like reggae. LOts of singing and rapping as seperate parts for : LL Cool J, TLC, Mary J Blige, Salt N Pepa, Biggie / Puffy , Jay-Z etc. But all that is forgivable…the biggest miss was not crediting Kanye West / Kid Cudi for Love Lockdown and then, not highlighting Drake clearly ushered in the era as it is so clear that all these artists sing-rapping are post-Drake artists copying his atmospheric backdrops and blending of sing-rapping. You can look at the charts pre-Drake and post-Drake and clearly Drake is one of the first artists to show serious lyrical skill and sing intermittently WHILE rapping. it’s his style that forced music execs to seek out clones. See “I’m on One”, “Wu-Tang Forever”, “November 18th” …tons of songs. He is the one who cemented this era – love him or hate him.
.
You must have never heard of Missy, Lauren Hill, Bone thugs n harmony if you think drake was one of the first artist to show serious lyrical skill and sing while rapping. Their are others also like Andre 3k, devin the dude etc. This style has been cemented way before drake, To me drake follows, nobody using his style because he is too busy using others style, first he was using Lil waynes pattern and flow, then future, now he trying to jack these reggae cats. Drake reminds me of the 4 horseman from the 5 heartbeats movie, he goes around to that black crowd and communities to see whats popping, and then he takes it to the white crowd and gets more exposure because companies are spending way more money on it.
@ Truth. No real disagreement re devin the dude ( great example) and Andre 3000. And there are even others. I’m talking about the popularity started and the take over of this current style of sing-rapping seemed to dominate airwaves with Drake’s rise. When he started he was getting plenty of flack for it because his way of doing rap-singing was considered non hiphop and it was controversial. When Take Care dropped, a lot of hiphop heads wrote it off as a Sade-like easy listening album. Now when u listen to the radio, it all sounds like different versions of Drake’s particular style of sing-rapping and now even more so, singing and rapping is almost a requirement for any rapper these days…Plus Drake’s style and sound is way different than that of Lauryn Hill / Andre 3000. With Drake it’s hard to tell sometimes if he is singing or rapping at certain points. Lil Uzi Vert, 6Black, Bryson Tiller and Post Malone to me couldn’t have existed pre-Drake. As far as the whole “Drake stealing black culture” thing…well he is black so I don’t get that (I guess because he is light-skin or mixed, he’s getting flack for that?) and he is huge in the black community (all major artists are popular amongst blacks and whites to me)…if Drake was a dark skin dude and from some community considered “hood”, we wouldn’t be having this argument but whatever…I think he is a unique artist and didn’t sound like anyone else when he came out so I don’t agree – this is part of why he endured so much hatred…ever since the ghostwriting controversy… the new anti-Drake arguement became he is stealing black culture …anyways, to be honest, your not making it over a sustained period in the music industry without a unique distinct sound. Lil wayne to me is great but to me, very distinct from Drake. Every artist has influences. You could say Jay-z stole Biggie’s style then or the Wu-tang stole from the East-Asian community because of the Shaolin references…nothing exists in a vacumn …it’s a slippery slope
Nelly f shit up, pharell is wack to me to. Nate Dogg, Bone Thugs, Outkast, Arrested Development were extremely talented and unique, the Fugees also
Because of the versatility and the use of the R&B style mixed with the harmonies was one to the reason I always preferred Outkast and bone over groups like Wu tang and mobb deep.
I disagree that biz markie really had much influence on a lot of those artist, I don’t think people really took that song or him serious.
The cats in the 90’s use this style the best, I can remember the first time I heard Mariah Carey break down Ft Bone Thugs N Harmony, and they were singing with her on the hook that was really refreshing. Mariah mention once on 106th and park that she was influence by Bone Thugs N Harmony.
Also the intro to dayz of our livez, I been hustling, thugging struggling forever!!!
I think you’ve missed the biggest influence here namely ‘The Chronic’. Dr. Dre changed the game in so many aspacts with his stuff that’s crazy. One of these aspacts is he ‘watered down’ the violent gangsta rhymes with smooth rnb hooks. Nobody has done it before him. The other HNIC was Timbaland who made complete rnb songs on his album with a few rap-like adlibs. Moreover he set off Missy’s career that is still one of the greatest and most creative female hiphop/rnb acts. Murs, I like most of your stuff, you’re a great MC, but next time please look up things more accurately. Truly yours.
The Chronic did take it to another level, but they were already doing that style at Ruthless Records before death row came around. Guys like Kokane, Above the law were mainly the orginators of that style but they didn’t get the credit because they were not mainstream, Dre stole that style from those producers at Ruthless during his transition to death row, put it out and got the majority of credit for it. Dre also took credit for a lot of production on death row that was done by daz, dj quik.
Bone really slammed that shit in for the Midwest not to mention they took on like 4-5 solid groups and won. Krit should use this style more, listen to vent when he starts singing.
ice cube was one of the fakest hardest rappers ever, That way back when track hits too hard I can barely listen to it to many memories type of song that punches you in the stomach in heart.
Let’s see if this gets deleted again… Ice Cube has the best album run in hip hop. SOC to LI are all fire. Back off.
I remember Rza getting on the radio show and saying that Bone thugz and Diddy wasn’t hiphop , then I remember later that Year Bone Thugz won Best Hiphop Artist over Wu tang at the 1998 American Music Awards, Blending Rap and Rnb made it 10x better we got and get amazing music out of it.
Bone thugs=GOAT
FACTS
Most overrated group there is.
Outkast and Bone thugs n harmony greatest rap group ever
Minus Bone Thugs and add A Tribe Called Quest… Then I will agree. Bone style gets irritated and boring at some point.
Yea to you maybe, BTNH is way more versatile then Tribe called quest. I actually listen to both, If you think their style gets irritating then you most likely don’t listen to them in depth. People that don’t listen to entire albums of these guys just think they rap fast from start to end, not true their aren’t many groups in rap with more styles than Bone and sorry TCQ is def not one of them. TCQ was pretty good for about a 6 year stretch and then became very inconsistent with content and solo wise that don’t have much done. Bone has been pretty decent for about a 20 year stretch from 1994 up until now they are still making decent music and killing tours. Solo wise Bone has a lot more content out there, better collabs, TCQ a good group but BTNH is on another level, Bone thugs were selling way more records and had the attention of way more people then TCQ and it was because their style was refreshing and really never done before. My favorite Player ever was Paul Pierce, but just because he was my fav doesn’t mean I don’t recognize that Lebron and Kobe were better, you have to have clarity, like what are you base it on to put TCQ before Bone Thugs??? Lyrical ability is the only category they can compete with BTNH in, Style goes to Bone, Flow goes to Bone, Record sales goes to Bone, classic songs goes to Bone, Best tours goes to Bone, and most of all Longevity goes to Bone. I respect TCQ, But show them St. Clair cats some love to they deserve it IMO.
Nelly was terrible ja rule songs were very catchy and I was feeling ja songs got crazy replay value that song he did with lil mo the songs he did with ashanti and the ones with charlie baltimore and vito. Nate dogg and warren g didn’t get a chance to do a lot but what they did was amazing fugees was my shit but if you watch them perform and during interviews they never had chemistry outside of the songs or at least it seemed that way i felt like they would break up fast. Bone had the style, voices and flow music that has harmony and rnb mixed has way better replay value for some reason to me.
i like this topic but when that comment on the east coast came with the Fugees.. what about Mary J. Blige whom started her career as a rapper who transitioned to R&B..