Run-DMC is considered one of Hip Hop’s early pioneers. Jospeh “Rev Run” Simmons, Darryl “DMC” McDaniels and the late Jason “Jam Master Jay” Mizell made history several times with albums such as their self-titled debut (1984) , King Of Rock (1985) and Raising Hell (1986).
The Hollis, Queens trio was the first Hip Hop group to earn a gold, platinum and multi-platinum records, first to have multiple singles debut in the Billboard Hot 100 and first to appear on MTV — and that’s just the beginning. But despite all of their success, DMC was crumbling behind the scenes as he struggled with alcoholism and his mental health. After getting sober in 2004, DMC wrote a book called Ten Ways Not To Commit Suicide, which has proved to be a beacon of hope for so many on a similar journey.
In a recent interview with HipHopDX, the living rap legend was joined by Anna Maria College professor Dennis Vanasse — who recently held an event with DMC at the school — for an open discussion about mental health, addiction and some potential solutions to overcoming outstanding obstacles. Here is that conversation.
HipHopDX: Darryl, you have a way of connecting with people so quickly. You truly care about people. I can see that every time we talk.
Darryl McDaniels: That shit is rare.
HipHopDX: We’ve seen so many rappers pass away in recent years from addiction — Mac Miller, Juice WRLD, DMX, Lil Peep. Is that a big reason behind you getting so involved with these conversations? You don’t want to see that happen to other kids?
Darryl McDaniels: Yes, but they didn’t listen. The big problem is nobody in this current generation of rappers is constantly making records about the issues. Think about it. Out of all the top rappers, all of them, of this generation, did any of them make a message of self destruction? No. All of these successful dudes and girls, nobody’s doing songs about Peep, Mac Miller and Juice WRLD.
Look at that void right there. Imagine if Q-Tip, Big Daddy Kane and Rakim OD’d. Every artist from Ice Cube to De La Soul would’ve made records addressing the issue. So this generation is being silent. So I’m like, “Yo. This is my culture. These are my people.” Their age don’t mean nothing. What I’m doing now, as the OG, I’ve been doing this since 1983. Nobody wants to step up and take the responsibility for making sure another Juice WRLD and Mac Miller doesn’t happen again. Then I guess that I was given a microphone for a reason.
The problem is, nobody in this current generation has said anything or made any music. And I’m not talking about doing a tribute record. I’m talking about making these issues part of your curriculum on every album, every mixtape. They are being silent.
HipHopDX: At this point, we know the dangers. We know what the end result is going to be. What can we do?
Darryl McDaniels: Hip Hop dictates what’s cool, and by them being silent and instead of saying, “Yo. We need to stop,” they’re saying it’s OK to do that. I was speaking at a teacher’s conference in Binghamton, New York in January. I was speaking at a conference for all the art teachers, and the art teachers said, “All of the young people in these inner cities and these Black neighborhoods, all of these high school kids, don’t see themselves living past 20.” That’s a huge, huge, huge problem that psychology, religion and pastors can’t solve but culture can.
The problem is harmful, addictive, unhealthy behavior is celebrated in our communities and even celebrated on the very records. Now, it’s different from censorship and freedom of speech. Future can make that song about Percocet, but the very next song on that mixtape or the very next Future song that the radio should play, in addition to the hit that everybody likes, should be, “But y’all, shouldn’t be taking these Percocets.” Y’all remember Run-DMC. We did hits like that and then we had B-side like “Sucker MCs.” If you make a record about a gun, the very next record should be about not using a gun.
HipHopDX: Or about the dangers of using a gun or the danger of doing drugs.
Darryl McDaniels: Right. You could tell those stories, but then you have to counter them. We was powerful because Rakim didn’t say, “I am a stickup kid.” He said, “I used to roll up” then said, “Hold on, but now I learned.”
HipHopDX: Macklemore is one of the only artists I can think of in recent memory, and it’s been years now, but he put out a song called “Otherside (The Fences Remix)” and it paints a really, really dark picture of addiction. But what’s funny is he didn’t get famous off of that. He got famous off of “Thrift Shop.” It wasn’t his record about drug addiction, how dangerous it could be and how it almost killed him. It was about how he liked to go to the thrift shop.
Darryl McDaniels: When you have a radio station say, “We’re the station that loves Hip Hop.” They played more of the records that’s actually harming their audience, so we need to be suing the stations. We should be suing Hip Hop radio, all of them that claim “We love Hip Hop.” Only feeding the content that is destroying the listeners, and you can’t tell me it’s not. Now, it’s different from saying… The music doesn’t cause it. No. These things exist, and all the hip hop radio stations play is the Percocet, shoot, fight records. Since everybody’s scared to say it, I’m saying it. That’s a problem, and the radio station is part of the problem.
Dennis Vanasse: College students, teenagers and adolescents are very impressionable, which is one of the most important things where, you look at somebody like you Darryl who is a celebrity, he has a very strong reach. When you come in and talk about your struggles, it reminds a student they’re not alone in confronting their challenges, their weaknesses, their illnesses.
I always love to watch the crowd when speakers come in. I reflected with my students afterward and I saw the change in them. They processed with me what they got out of it. I’ve been a college professor for 25 years and I have my class “Evolution of Hip Hop” and I use Hip Hop to connect with students. What’s been great about Hip Hop throughout the years, you connect with individuals who are unheard and through the music, you teach them about being unheard. I’ve noticed a huge change in the students, and what you’ve done is you gave him a voice.
HipHopDX: I interviewed Juice WRLD’s mother recently and we had a really candid conversation about addiction and mental health. I asked her, “Why do you think there’s still such a stigma attached to this and asking for help?” She said, “I think in Hip Hop, a lot of people see that as a sign of weakness, admitting that you need help.” It just kind of crushed me because she lost her son at 21 and it sounded like he was too afraid to seek help.
Darryl McDaniels: Exactly.
HipHopDX: Darryl, I got a message the other day about our podcast [Breaking Anonymity with MC Serch & Kyle Eustice] from somebody who saw us on Dr. Oz. Guess who it was?
Darryl McDaniels: Who?
HipHopDX: Mia Tyler [Steven Tyler of Aerosmith’s daughter].
Darryl McDaniels: Wow, really!?
HipHopDX: She said we really inspired her. To affect anybody on that level is pretty powerful.
Dennis Vanasse: I’ve worked with students for years. You never know what people are going through. People don’t actually tell you, “Hey. I’m going through something.” But when you have somebody speak out, maybe they’ll speak up. Unfortunately, there still lies a stigma when we talk about mental illness. That needs to go away. But people are afraid to get teased.
Darryl McDaniels: They’re ashamed of it. Stigma exists because of shame. So even people who aren’t going through what the person is struggling is, they won’t tell me. They’re worried about how people are going to look at them. It’s a big problem with the person suffering to speak up. That’s huge. But the biggest problem is people around the person suffering is worried about what the people are going to think about them for having a family member, wife, son or brother who’s suffering. So they’re ashamed of the whole situation.
HipHopDX: I interviewed Juicy J several years ago. I asked him, “Do you ever feel any social responsibility for the young kids that listen to your music?” He’s like, “Nah. Fuck that. It’s their parents’ fault.”
But after Juice WRLD’s death in 2019, he apologized and said something like, “I’m sorry if I ever gave the message that taking drugs was cool.” Maybe if more artists did that, we’d be in a better position. NLE Choppa is one of a few who started really embracing a healthier lifestyle. Do you think that we could somehow make that shift? Do you think that’s happening?
Darryl McDaniels: Pop culture and advertising are trying to steal our swag. That’s OK, but they are not using it to help us. They’re using it to be cool in front of the world, get more money and exploit the masses. They’re not using it like Afrika Bambaataa and the Zulu Nation did. They’re not using it like “The Message” [Grandmaster Flash & The Furious Five], “Planet Rock” [Afrika Bambaataa], “It’s Like That” [Run-DMC], “The Breaks” [Kurtis Blow], “My Mind Playing Tricks On Me” [Geto Boys], all of Rakim’s records, all the De La Soul records, Public Enemy records or X Clan.
Killer Mike Talks Importance Of Mental Health Discussions: 'Men Deserve To Be Checked On Too'
What the young people don’t understand is the reason why they don’t do it is because there’s no examples on their level doing it. Juicy J, Drake and them was only going to do it if the management and labels tell them to. And they’re only going to do it if all of a sudden positivity sells 10 million records. It’s a deeper disrespect to our culture. The artists and the labels don’t care about our people
Dennis Vanasse: This is the beauty of DMX. We use his voice. That’s what made him an amazing artist. He was open. He was open about his struggles with mental illness, drug addiction and that’s why he was so loved. When you have kids listening to X, people feel less alone. When they listen to X, they hear his prayers in every record.
Darryl McDaniels: Yup. But if more of us did it, it would resonate with more kids. When we were making all those [Run-DMC] records, there was change happening in the communities. People were stopping the gangs. Ice-T heard some Hip Hop and said, “I don’t have to be a pimp no more.”
Dennis Vanasse: Well, Darryl, you know what the thing is, I always believe, when you talk about athletes, celebrities and artists, kids are always watching. They’re very impressionable. If the community leaders, if celebrities, if they start to lead the charge, the kids will follow.
Darryl McDaniels: That’s what I’m saying.
Dennis Vanasse: When I see students talking to you and they’re asking questions, they’re revealing some of their personal struggles, that’s change.
Darryl McDaniels: Right. Yes. One girl said, “My brother would tell me everything he was going through and when he went to my dad to tell him, my dad said, ‘Suck it up, and be a man.'” Imagine how that hits that young man.
HipHopDX: I hate that saying so much. I saw someone tell a young man the other day, “Man up.” It’s so conditioned in men to not express themselves, to not show their emotions. It’s another thing that stops us from growing.
Darryl McDaniels: How do we make what’s considered not cool make this world actually believe it’s the coolest thing in existence? Everybody’s afraid of it because it would change everybody’s curriculum and programming. They’re so far deep into nonsense and stupidity for it not being said. The same million dollars that you spend to promote this ignorant rap song, maybe spend $2 million to support the powerful songs, so that they could be change for the listeners. That’s what’s missing. For me, you know all of my great music. It’s more powerful to these young boys and girls when I turn the mic off and talk as a person.
If you or anyone you know is struggling with addiction and/or mental health, please call (800) 273-8255.
people struggling with drugs mental illness (me included) can be products of their environments. all the rap music i listen to is rather damn depressing. i listen to sixx from 3 six mafia and that homey just doesn’t give a fuck what he says in his rhymes. but i feel that homey because i can familiarise myself with what he says and so i listen to his music. now what i will say is that there are people who don’t understand the world and the people in it. should we be more aware of drug addiction and mental illness hell yeah we all should. but you know there are two sides to a story if we can support those who aren’t doing well we will try.
It was so amazing to see two people come together to speak the truth and create awareness about addiction and mental illness. Blessed.
Such an amazing topic. I am so proud of you Dennis changing lives as always. You are a gift to humanity.
Professor Dennis is beyond dope.
Hopefully hhdx hears the wisdom and stops promoting fuckry in every other article.
You speak the truth Jus Saying. So sick of the filth that gets promoted.
Amazing event and article! It is so important that we talk about mental illness and spread awareness especially in college communities!
Kaitlin, I was at the event as well. So powerful. Two great peeps coming together.
Great to see a celebrity at the stature of Darryl McDaniel collaborate with a college professor on a topic that is so important in today’s society. Shout out to Anna Maria College. Dennis was one of my favorite Professors of all-time and has changed so many lives. Keep grinding professor.
DMC was so powerful at the program.
The King of Rock talking some real truth. This is so dope. Love to see you are changing lives. Dennis, you the man. Keep doing your thing bro.
The King of Rock, there is none higher, sucker MC, should call me sire
Love to see that influencers and educators are working together to create change. DMC you are one of the greatest ever and I love to see your new mission, one of the most important of all. Proud of you Dennis. You are continuing to do at the high school and college level what you have done your entire life. Great content!!!!
What a wonderful article, Dennis, DMC, and the students collaborating at Anna Maria College.
These cats are educating the world together.
It’s so cool to see my professor and DMC speak about mental health. Absolutely incredible.
This article is tight. I am glad people are talking about real stuff. Time to bring the world together.
In a world with so much drama, it is important to have good things happening.
Such a powerful interview.
I love the back and forth between Dennis and DMC.
What a powerful interview. Thank you for helping to break the stigma of mental illness, and advocating for change.
Change is needed and we can’t be stagnant as a society.
One of my favorite interviews on this site.
I have to say this article is so powerful. As a current MSW (Master of Social Work) Student at Boston College but also as the emotionally adopted daughter of my emotionally adopted second father who I lost to suicide as a result of untreated bipolar disorder and alcoholism in 2005, this interview and both Darryl and Dennis’s words mean so much to me. There are so many pieces of this article that I want to highlight because they are so spot on.
First of all I appreciate both of you as men especially as influential men whose voices young adults listen to, thank you for your willingness to be vulnerable, open and willing to admit the negative role that Hip Hop and Rap can have on teens and young adults. Thank you for that courage. I would love to see your idea Darryl of music being put out sending a different and a healthier message about what’s cool, being made and being played on radio stations.
Thank you Dennis Vanasse for this understanding as well,” I also found it interesting that you said this:
“Dennis Vanasse: I’ve worked with students for years. You never know what people are going through. People don’t actually tell you, “Hey. I’m going through something.” But when you have somebody speak out, maybe they’ll speak up. Unfortunately, there still lies a stigma when we talk about mental illness. That needs to go away. But people are afraid to get teased.” You are one of the only meh and frankly the ONLY educator in my life and academic career who understands this!
This article as a whole fires me up to continue my work with Survivors of Sexual and Intimate Partner Violence where the mental health challenges caused by those traumas are concerned. It fires me up for my internship in the fall working with the men in the community on an initiative around mental health, alcohol prevention and suicide prevention.
Thank you both of you ❤️
Very deep comments Rachel. Dennis is my favorite professor of all time.
Rachel, you are such a deep person with an amazing perspective.
I’ve witnessed many people with mental illness self medicate with illegal drugs and alcohol. Reaching out through music is an awesome way to share and create awareness to diminish the stigma.
Thank you for voicing the real struggles!
I appreciate you sharing your experiences.
Amazing article!
Such an amazing article.
As a school counselor, this article was so powerful and inspirational! Thank you DMC and Dennis for being so opened and vulnerable on this crucial matter of mental health awareness. We truly never know what an individual is going through! What a great read, thank you ??
Love your comments. It is great to see two grown men be vulnerable on a sensitive topic.
It was very impressive to observe two men discuss such a serious topic.
Thank you for reminding us of the importance of mental health awareness. DMC, showing the courage to share your story will hopefully help others to open up and reach out for help. Professor, keep being you.
Professor Vanasse is still my favorite.
The Professor only has one speed, to help others. He helped me get through college for four years.
Love our professor.
Mental health should never be pushed to the side.
So proud of my teacher Mr. Vanasse.
This is so incredible.
This is such an important to discuss on many levels.
So incredible to see two people come together to create change in the world. In a time with so much loss, we need positivity infused into this world. Great job Professor Vanasse and Darryl.
This article is fire. It is crucial to discuss much needed topics. Always great to see my professor grinding. Proud of you. You changed my life.
Big ups to our professor.
He changed my life as well Tyler. Amazing discussion.
Love seeing my professor do great things. Proud of you Dennis.
So proud of my professor.
Me too. great to see Worcester doing great things.
Props to my professor. One of the best dues ever.
I agree Ariel. Our professor is the bomb.
This dialogue is so important. More artists need to be conscious and recognize they are in the eye of the public. Amazing to see my favorite professor and one of the best hip-hop artists of all-time collaborate to help others.
Dennis is my favorite as well Walt. Anna Maria College is so lucky to have him.
Anna Maria College is a great institution and the students are lucky to have Dennis as a professor and director.
Run DMC is in my top five of all-time:
Run DMC
Wu-Tang
Mobb Deep
Tribe Called Quest
Drake
The world needs so much more positivity. We need to be aware that people are hurting and watch what we say to them. Always be sure to check on your loved ones.
After reading this article, it really opens my eyes to our community and the students. This is 100 percent true and you don’t really realize it until its brought to our attention. I really enjoyed reading this, you really change lives everyday without knowing it .
It’s important we work together as a community to change lives.
If we can listen to the youth, we are making tons of progress.
This is so true! Artists nowadays talk about popping pills and drinking lean and I feel like it’s a cry for help! If they were not already doing these things then they are introduced to it and the people who look up to them (fans) think that it’s cool to do the same thing! We need more artist that are role models like DMX and less examples of what not to be! This was a great article! Dennis is a really great person and I am happy that DMX got a chance to meet him!
*DMC
d is for dirty, mc for mostly clean
one of the dopest verses
DMC is a true role model. Awesome to watch him in his new chapter in life.
I agree with you Shayla. It is great that DMC got to meet our professor and see all the great things he always does to change lives.
I agree with you Shayla. Dennis is so good to us at the college. He understands who were are as people and always wants us to be successful. What a great man.
By far my favorite professor of all time Shayla.
DMX is one of the best ever. So sad he battled addiction.
DMX was gone way too soon.
When someone steps in the public eye, they are already a role model. Now they have to act like it. Great point Shayla.
What a wonderful discussion about a topic that should never be hidden. We need to save lives and I appreciate the dialogue from two great people.
Nice to see two great men saving lives. Great collaboration.
Definitely agree with this article ! A lot of us in the community deal with family members or loved ones battling addiction but don’t talk much on it . Definitely a topic that should be discussed more !
So many people are going through it. We need to look for the signs.
DMC has a lot of great points. it’s just different people who are in the game now. before guys got scouted and scouts knew dudes families what block they were from and guys that might not be able to handle the fame maybe had to work a little harder to show they could be relied upon. the younger rappers back then were mostly college kids and high schoolers who were gifted in music and public speaking in some cases they got deals by winning school talent shows. Todays young rappers are internet goons straight off the street no stage training even if they have talent so that’s why they have no idea how to come across to the public.
I absolutely love your perspective.
This is such an amazing perspective and topic. We need to band together to support one another. Mental health is so important.
I like the internet goon analogy. It is so true that many people on the stage have very little presence. It can be quite boring to watch.
Great article! Thank you DMC and Dennis Vanasse for having this discussion and helping young adults understand that it’s important to talk about your feelings, challenges, or anything that may be bothering you so that you can manage things better and what better way to relay that message then through music.
D-Darryl
M-Makes
C-Change
Great to see my professor changing lives with the King of Rock.
Professor has always been this way and helps anyone he encounters. So incredible.
I agree with you. The best teacher evaaaaaaaaa!!!!
Facts Vee.
Facts
So true. Helped me out a lot as well.
The world needs more people like DMC and Dennis.
Great read! Big ups to Dennis Vanasse for tackling such a tough concept!
Bueno. Muy importante.
I personally was blessed to listen to Darryl speak at Anna Maria College, thanks to Dennis. His power, passion, conviction, transparency and rawness was so impactful. The stigma has to be challenged, otherwise the cycle continues
Dennis invited me as well to this amazing program.
By far the best program of the year. DMC made a huge difference in my life.
I wish I was at the event. It must have been so dope.
Devinne, I was at the presentation and it was incredible. I loved DMCs genuine approach.
I love everything about this article. Being a mom of an aspiring singer/ rapper who struggled with peer abuse and now lives through the mental scars, she found a way through her song writing to begin to heal. DMC makes such valid points… there needs to be evolution of mental health/ addiction awareness. We are not quite there yet. Certainly, music plays a gigantic part in sending messages to the current generation, we need to get artists who are talking about mental health issues heard!
Great read. Thank you!
Good luck to your daughter. You must be so proud.
nobody should ever be ashamed of mental health.
Good luck to your daughter. Enjoy the journey.
This is beyond dope. My teacher is doing big things with DMC. So proud.
Professor Vanasse is my favorite as well. We need more of him helping children.
Jada. This is so cool to see out teacher doing great things for others.
I am blown away with DMC and how he gives himself to others. The world needs more people like him.
Nice to see DMC touching lives in the new chapter of his life.
The world needs more people like the two Ds: Darryl and Dennis
This is such an important topic that is crucial to be talked about. Great dialogue.
I learned so much from this interview.
I learned that we must always listen to others at all times.
This is such a great topic. So proud of my professor. He is a special man.
Love to see my professor doing great things.
This is so freaking dope.
The best mentor someone can have Noah. He helped me out so much.
Such an amazing topic with great dialogue. This needs to be discussed on the regular.
Incredible dialogue. Needs to happen more often.
Unfortunately, people tend to get scared and afraid to discuss sensitive subjects.
Awesome content. I loved the discussion.
We should always be kind to others.
Agreed. Super dope discussion
This is such an important topic that should never be overlooked. We must always be kind to others.
You never know how you will make another human being feel in life.
Such an amazing discussion about important issues in mental health. So impressed to see my favorite professor collaborating with a hip-hop God.
DMC is one of the best ever. I grew up listening to him when hip-hop was on the come up.
Props to my professor. This is such an important topic that needs to be discussed. So proud.
More needs to be done to save lives on the regular.
So beyond impressed with my mentor and inspiration, Dennis Vanasse. You are an amazing human being.
He was my mentor as well. We are lucky.
By far my favorite professor.
Facts, Lizzie. Dennis is my hero.
So proud of my professor.
Professor is always making great things happen.
He is one of my favorite professors ever.
You put hip-hop on the map DMC. Big ups to you.
What is so cool is Dennis taught us so much about Run DMC in his class. Now he collaborated with him. Surreal.
I never knew much about Run DMC until Dennis taught about them in class. It is great that he teaches us about the foundation of hip-hop so that we can learn how it developed.
I just graduated from AMC and Dennis helps us all. He always considers us as human beings. Great to see this on a national level.
I graduated from AMC as well. Dennis is the bomb. He is so good to us.
This article is so incredible. Great to see my professor changing lives as always. He has helped me out so much.
I learned so many new things through this article. It is important that we always listen to others.
Mr. Vanasse has always been changing lives. Nice to see the world recognizing him.
This articles has so many teaching points. DMC and Dennis did such a great job.
Proud of my professor as always.
He changed mine.
What an incredible article great job guys keep up the good work ???
So proud of my professor. Great discussion.
DMC is one of the best rappers ever.
So proud of my teacher taking care of mental health issues.
Two great people making amazing things happen.
Impressed by my favorite teacher doing great things. We are all proud of him.
The professor is always changing lives.
My favorite professor of all-time.
Professor is always changing lives and helping others. Great tribute.
This article is amazing.
So important for mental health to be taken seriously. We need more influencers stepping up in society.
Incredible article that speaks about sensitive topics so eloquently.
This is an amazing discussion about mental health. I love how hip-hop is being used as a vehicle to connect with students.
Music can be a great vehicle to talk about touchy subjects. Great job DMC using your platform.
Dope article
This is a pretty dope article that is well written. I love reading Kyle’s interviews. She asked great questions to both parties. Nice job.
all the praise and good faith in the world won’t stop the fact that the industry wants to destroy black culture and black folks from the inside out. if they could sell computerized ambient music they would. they only care about money not people. they have their stupid “blackout” day then next day telling future which new opiates to promote to 14 year old ghetto youths in the new single. they sign kids to street gang organizations and watch them literally destroy their lives. Young Thug never getting out of jail. A month ago every single one of these industry people would have sold you off to YSL facts only
Opiates have been destroying lives for years. We need to get the pharmaceuticals under control.
Amazing discussion. We need to have more people working together to make positive change with mental health. People need to be heard.
This is a great topic that needs to be talked about more. I truly enjoyed the dialogue in this interview.
Incredible discussion that more people and influencers need to talk about more. Coming together is what matters! Thank you for sharing this!
Nice to see real people and influencers making a difference.
You say it best Kelley. It’s important that we come together as a society.
I am amazed with the depth of the dialogue. Darryl and Dennis did a great job stressing the importance of mental health. This needs to be addressed in all facets of life. Great interview Kyle.
DMC is the king in so many ways. Keep changing lives Darryl.
This was an amazing event. Thank you, Dennis for bring such a dope artist to our college. Great experience.
Love this! Really speaks to me!