Joe Budden has reminisced about the course of his career in a new interview — and he said that rap media personalities are now bigger than rappers themselves.

In an exclusive interview with Complex, the “Pump It Up” rapper didn’t mince words when it came to Hip Hop media’s state of affairs.

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When asked if the rap media personalities of today are bigger than the rappers themselves, Budden had only one rumination: “well, yeah. They are.”

“I learned that when I started working here,” he continued. “Because I was coming in every morning with Ak [Akademics] and all the young people in my life were familiar with him. I wasn’t. So it was like, ‘Oh shit, this guy’s got some following somewhere.’ Like, let me get hip.”

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The former Slaughterhouse MC also remarked that rap media personalities are so powerful, today, that rappers themselves will find a way to ride their wave in the most opportunistic of ways.

“And then the rappers often will—let me find a nice way to say this—the rappers see the media people as an opportunity sometimes, and they will attach themselves or attempt to attach themselves to that person for rollout purposes,” Budden said.

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The interview went on to discuss how today’s rap media personalities — such as N.O.R.E., Adam-22, and DJ Vlad — can go on one another’s shows to get additional press and publicity for themselves.

This trend, said Budden, is one he’s noticed himself.

“It is great. And it can be bad sometimes,” he said. “Like when I had Adam on, oh my God, that conversation lived for the next two months.”

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Joe Budden was listed as the top media personality in Complex‘s Hip Hop Media Power Ranking — in part because he’s not afraid to share his opinions, however controversial, with the rest of the world.

Last March, he ignited a firestorm of controversy when he crowned OutKast as the greatest rap group of all time in a tell-all interview with Drink Champs, giving the Atlanta group G.O.A.T. status over New York’s Mobb Deep.

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Budden was asked to choose between Mobb Deep or OutKast during a routine segment on N.O.R.E. and DJ EFN’s podcast, in which the guest must choose one or opt for a shot.

“OutKast is the greatest group of all time but I’m from New York,” Budden said around the 70-minute mark. “I’m from New York, I mean but OutKast is better than Mobb Deep. I’m not gonna be on camera saying otherwise. But Queens, Mobb Deep rest in peace Prodigy.”