In some ways, Knoc-TurnāAlās early career embodies unfulfilled promise. Each chart rising single and Grammy nomination seemed to proceed an unfortunate upheaval completely out of his control. A potentially classic debut album, Knocās Landing, leaks before itās ever released back when any leak forced every artist back to the recording board. Another highly anticipated album, The Way I Am, goes under-heard after his label is acquired and then subsequently fired itās entire Rap department. Itās enough to make any artist take a moment of reflection. In Knocās case, a five year hiatus. Ā
Now back with his first official release in half a decade, HipHopDX spoke with Knoc-TurnāAl about Knocsāville, the advice he received from the late Nate Dogg, what he said to Nas and Jay-Z after Hov tossed the āBad Intentionsā beat into this centuryās first great rap battle, his disappointment in todayās California Emcees and why his relationship with Dr. Dre is different from the rest.Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā
HipHopDX: Letās start this off with a quote from your track, āSorry I Left Youā: āOkay, Iāll admit I got lazy / āCause I aināt like those other suckas / Dre paid meā¦ā In some ways, Knoc-TurnāAl is synonymous with unfilled promise. Whether thatās because of label politics and all the things that happened with Elektra [Records]ā¦
Knoc-TurnāAl: With Lyor [Cohen] and Elektra [Records] and all that stuff. I said that for a reason because I did get lazy because I had to pull back. I have two children now. I had to pull back and focus on them for a little while. I was missing their first steps and birthdays. I was working too much. I was probably only home for two months out of the year. I had to pull back for a minute and value whatās really important. I know my career is important as well, but I had to pull back for a minute. I felt like I could pull back for a second because [Dr.] Dre did pay me. He made sure I had my publishing and everything so I said, āOkay, let me step back and do whatās really important.ā If you canāt keep your family together, then youāre just like a preacher preaching bullshit.
DX: Thatās the truth. So, as you approach the release of Knocsāville, how do you feel about your career where it is now? This is a rebirth in a sense. Ā
Knoc-TurnāAl: Yes indeed. Iām treating this like Iām a brand new artist. I havenāt been out in five years, so the way Iām approaching it is as if, you know, people [who know my music] went to high school and graduated and probably got one year of college by now. Iām approaching this as if Iām a brand new artist. I recreated myself, reinvented my style. You have to do that. That way Iām not looking at it like, āYouāve gotta respect me because Iām a G in this game.ā Iām looking at it like Iām a brand new artist coming out after five years and trying to rebirth myself exactly like you said. The point being is people tend to forget so you have to recreate yourself and remind them.
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DX: Tell us about Knocsāville. I know you have Jayo Felony on there. Youāve got Yukmouth. Youāve got Sly Boogy.
Knoc-TurnāAl: Yeah, Sly Boogy, heās a cool dude. Me and him, when he was with [King] Tech from [The Wake Up Show], we was out in New York and we both got stuck in a blizzard out there. It was funny. We were both like, āMan, this is some foolishness!ā We couldnāt leave to go home. We were stuck in a blizzard! I was like, āThis is some foolishness!ā And as soon as I said that, he was like, āBullshit!ā [Laughs] Shit was funny as hell.
But with the Knocsāville album, I really took my time on that. Itās not a mixtape. Itās really an album and then after that, Iām hitting them with The Book Of Knoc, then Iām hitting them with Knocsā Life. So, Iāve got three different albums coming out real quick. In the digital age, you canāt just expect one album to last long.
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DX: Whoās doing the production?
Knoc-TurnāAl: This guy named Komplex. Iāve got a couple from Warren [G], couple from Doc. Big Hollis and MG. Itās a conglomerate of people that are precisely putting themselves in the music business that knows what theyāre doing. When youāre trying to elevate yourself, youāve got to make sure you get the people that are elevating at the same time. And of course itās always good to give back. Iāve got the Mathmadix on there. Iāve got my little brother Jaguar on there. I wouldnāt be me if Dr. Dre didnāt give me a chance. Iāve got to give people a chance too, and thatās what I learned from Dr. Dre.
DX: You did an interview with DubCNN.com a couple years back where you were talking specifically about that. You were saying how itās more important to build a team of people that you can help lift up than it is to always try to be around the people that are already at the top.
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Knoc-TurnāAl: Exactly. First of all, theyāll never forget it. Second of all, where would you be is someone didnāt give you a chance? I always hate cats that make it and then turn their nose up. I was a block baby. I was born on the block, raised on the block between the streets of Long Beach and Wilmington, [California]. I went to the [penitentiary]. Got out the pen, got shot. I aināt proud of that. I did some stupid shit when I was growing up. But the whole point is: where would I be if Dr. Dre didnāt give me a chance? So why would I not try to give back, know what I mean?
DX: Yeah. Integrity is what youāre talking about. Ā
Knoc-TurnāAl: Yeah. I donāt like people that get something then all of a sudden they like to turn their nose. Itās like somebody all of a sudden get a managerial position at a grocery store then they want to turn their nose up and start talking shit to everybody. Thatās some foolishness. Thatās bullshit. Remain who you are, know what I mean?
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DX: My earliest memories of Knoc-TurnāAl the artist always included, āYo, this cat could really blow up. This cat is mad talented,ā because you really are one of few diverse talents in the sense that you can actually rhyme and have an emphasis with being clever with your words. But you also capture melody so well and your hooks are always crazy.
Knoc-TurnāAl: Thank you. Thatās actually my fatherās doing because music runs in our family. Thatās why my little brother [Jaguar] heās on the Knocsāville album and heās on The Prequel mixtape which is available for download all over the place. When I was growing up, my father had a band. He had a chance to be on Motown [Records]. but they didnāt want the whole band, they just wanted him. He always told me that if he could do it over again he wouldāve just signed and came back and got the band after he made it. He always tells me, āDonāt miss your opportunity.ā I had a group too, at first, but Elektra didnāt want the whole group. I had to sign me. We still prospered off of it. Thatās when we came up with that L.A. Confidential. We had a conglomerate of people [nationwide]. The only person we was missing is somebody from New York. We built the studio. We did everything that we had to do but, like my dad told me, āDonāt make the same mistake I made,ā because I talked him about it before I [signed].
DX: What happened with L.A. Confidential?
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Knoc-TurnāAl: What happened with L.A. Confidential is that Lyor Cohen took over Elektra and bought it from Time Warner. Then he fired the whole Rap department. [Laughs] He fired 400 people that worked in the offices and started letting people go debt and obligation-free. Which I wasnāt mad about because, at the time I still owed them a couple albums so that gave me the chance to go relax and go home and try to be with my family for a little bit. He had a lot of people there that still owed [the label] money but he just let everybody go debt and obligation free. He didnāt ask for no money back or nothing. He was just like, āOkay, yāall can go.ā We was like, āOkay, no problem.ā How can you be mad at that?
DX: Your debut project, Knocs Landing, was bootlegged so heavy that you had to release it as an EP and this was back when it was difficult to bootleg something. Not difficult ā but more difficult than it is now.Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā
Knoc-TurnāAl: Exactly. The thing is it got bootlegged more than cable in the hood. [Laughs] I was rolling down the street and everywhere I looked, everywhere I turned they were bumping my shit. I go to Compton they bumping my shit. I go to māfuckin Long Beach, they bumping my shit. I go to San Pedro, they bumping my shit. I go to L.A., they bumping my shit. Iām like, āWait a minute, my shit aināt even out yet!ā [Laughs] I had to call the label. Iāll never forget, I called Jay Brown from the label that was in California. I called Jay Brown and said, āMan, something aināt right because I keep hearing my shit everywhere I go.ā Heās like, āI know. It got leaked.ā Iām like, āYāall māfuckas mustāve did that.ā I was mad as hell. He was like, āNah we wouldnāt do that, dog. We wouldnāt do that. Why would we mess up our money?ā I was like, āI donāt know. Something aināt right. Iāll call you back.ā [Laughs] Jay Brown started laughing. He was like, āSomethingās wrong with you.ā Iām like, āAināt nothing wrong with me. Iām trying to figure out how the hell this happened.ā Then I had to go back in and do five more songs ā of course with Xzibit, Too Short and few other people with Dr. Dre and put out an EP real quick because everybody was expecting my album to come out. But I appreciate all them people coming together as fast as they did so I could at least put something out.
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DX: Do you think the leak helped you at all; helped your reputation?
Knoc-TurnāAl: I think probably helped but it hurt too. It helped me in the sense that people got to know me. But it hurt me in the sense that I had to just give them five songs instead of giving them a full LP. I had to give them an EP instead. So that kind of had people upset. The true fans that went to go buy it were like, āWhat do you mean itās only five songs?ā They were expecting a whole album. A lot of people still bumped it anyway. That album ended up being platinum in the long run but it took a while. It wasnāt until The Way I Am came out until it finally went platinum and that was like three years down the line. Then āBad Intentionsā helped me a lot with more record sales and that came out like a year after Knocs Landing.
DX: Then The Way I Am sold out, but there was no one to reorder at Elektra. Ā
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Knoc-TurnāAl: Exactly because Lyor fired the whole Rap department. That one took off and sold out real quick. It sold out the first day nationwide but the whole point being is that there was no one there to resend them shit, know what I mean? I mean itās like, who do they call to send them more copies if the whole rap department is gone? Itās the luck of the draw sometimes. I understand and appreciate the fans who want more and more and more so Iām going to make sure that when I hit them this time Iāma hit them with three good albums real fast. Thatās why Iāve been sitting in my ābat caveā getting it together for real, working.
DX: I spoke to Glasses Malone recently and heās gone through a lot of delays with Beach Cruiser. Heās remade that album like three times with a specific emphasis on lyricism. Is lyricism at the forefront of everything youāre doing?
Knoc-TurnāAl: Of course. Of course. Thatās where you build it from. But then you know, I got the jingles. Nate Dogg, you know ā rest in peace ā he told me a long time ago that, āYou need to be a self maintained artist because you can do jingles and also sing hooks and do little melodies as well as good lyrics.ā He said, āNot to be funny, but I kind of envy you a little bit because all I got is one niche. I can rap a little bit but it never comes out right. You need to focus on both at the same time.ā And I love him for telling me that. Rest in peace.
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DX: You guys worked a lot together.
Knoc-TurnāAl: Yeah, we did. Nate Dogg is funny. He was at Elektra with me. He was a good dude, though. He was a comedian. He was a sarcastic comedian. He really donāt talk much if you really donāt know him. He just handle his business and shake it. But if he knew you, heād be cutting jokes. But you got to know him to know when heās joking because heāll just keep a straight face. He donāt even laugh at his own jokes when he told one. He wouldāve slid a joke in on you and you didnāt even know it. Fuck around and figure it out an hour later like, āWas that nigga being funny?ā [Laughs] God bless his soul, though. Rest in peace. He was a good dude. He was always a good dude.
DX: When was the last time you saw or spoke to him?
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Knoc-TurnāAl: The last time I saw him was after he had the second stroke. He wasnāt good. The fact that he couldnāt talk kind of hurt him. Ultimately thatās stressful. Ā
DX: That was a tremendous loss.
Knoc-TurnāAl: Yeah, itās a tremendous loss. It makes me sad. Ā
DX: Itās interesting that Nate Dogg said that to you because I always felt that you had the ability to connect through hooks and melodies in a way similar to Nate Dogg. āBad Intentionsā is the perfect example, I think.
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Knoc-TurnāAl: Exactly. He always told me to make sure that I focus on that because I be having melodies and different stuff stuck in my head. And the funny thing is, I was having sinus and allergy problems that day. Thatās why my voice sounded like that when I was like āAll I really know isā¦ā [sings āBad Intentionsā hook] And Dr. Dre said, āKeep it!ā [Laughs] I was having allergy and sinus problems that day. That shit is hilarious. And Dr. Dre kept it. He was like, āFuck that. Keep that shit!ā [Laughs] Then he told me to do another track of that right there. [Laughs] Dr. Dre ass is crazy. You never knew what he was gonna hear. You never knew what was on his mind. When he heard that he was like, āFuck that, keep that shit right there. Give me another track like that, Knoc Knoc.ā The shit came out right, though.
DX: How much fun was it shooting that video? When I look at that video, Iām like, āMan, those cats are having fun.ā
Knoc-TurnāAl: Oh yeah, Me, Dr. Dre, the film crew and 50 bitches ā that was fun. [Laughs] It wasnāt nobody else. Just me, Dr. Dre, the film crew and 50 bitches. That shit was hilarious.
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DX: You know, style-wise ā away from the hooks and your melodies ā but style-wise, the way you approached āBang Bangā [on 2001], to me, was just amazing. That off-kilter kind of conversational flow.Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā
Knoc-TurnāAl: Yeah, Dre says itās like an off-beat on-beat flow ā like Iām a street narrator, like Iām talking but Iām rapping. He says, āAs soon as I think youāre not going to rhyme right or land on the beat, you land there.ā
DX: How did you land on that style? Is that you naturally or do you actually have to work on that?
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Knoc-TurnāAl: Nah, thatās just the way that I like to rap. Everybody got their own style. Busta Rhymes, canāt nobody do that. Ludacris, canāt nobody do that. You can try. Bone Thugs-N-Harmony, canāt nobody do that. You can try to imitate somebody but thatās just the way I felt like the raps should go. When I start writing raps and saying them in my brain, thatās the way I felt they needed to go. I donāt what it is, but itās my style. Dre got his style when people write for him and when he writes for himself he knows what he wants. I ghost wrote for Dre before, but I didnāt write my style for him. I wrote who I thought he should sound like as the pioneer to the west coast. Remembering him from N.W.A. and everything else, I thought this is the way he should sound. My style in particular was totally different. Ā
DX: Did you ghost write āBad Intentions?ā
Knoc-TurnāAl: Yeah.
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DX: āSuper Ugly!ā
Knoc-TurnāAl: āSuper Ugly!ā You know what āSuper Uglyā means, right?
DX: Correct me if Iām wrong, but thatās you talking about smoking weed and drinking and itās not pretty. Itās āSuper Ugly.ā
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Knoc-TurnāAl: Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah. āSuper Uglyā means ā you know that face that you get when you see a bad ass bitch and you get that āSuper Uglyā face like, āDamn!ā [Laughs] Thatās why when we walk by bad bitches, we be like, āSuper Ugly!ā Thatās the face you make when you see a bad ass bitch, like āGot damn! That bitch bad!ā Me and Dre laughed about that for a long time. Women would be wondering why weāre walking around just saying, āSuper Ugly.ā
DX: Thatās classic now. Jay-Z got that from you.
Knoc-TurnāAl: Yeah I know. Yeah, Jay-Z cool, too. Jay-Zās a cool dude. I aināt like how he put me in that Nas beef. [Laughs] I aināt appreciate that, but heās still cool.
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DX: Did you ever talk to him about that?
Knoc-TurnāAl: I just told him, āI donāt know why you did that, but itās all good.ā [Laughs] It was at a Grammy Awards after-party and I was like, āWhy you have to put me in that Nas beef? Did you not realize that one week after you did that I had to do a couple of shows with Nas?ā [Laughs] Why he just bust out laughing though?Ā Ā
DX: Thatās what he did? [Laughs]
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Knoc-TurnāAl: Yeah, he started laughing like, āMy bad, Knoc.ā He was funny though because right after āBad Intentionsā came out he was talking about āBusting a nut on his baby seat,ā and I was like, āOh, thatās disrespectful.ā A week or two later, I think I was in Boston or something, and had to do a show and Nas was the headliner and I had to tell Nas, āHey, you know I aināt have shit to do with that song, you know that right?ā He was like, āItās all good, fam. You wanna hit this blunt?ā [Laughs] He said, āIāma get that muthafucker back.ā [Laughs] They crazy. Them New York muthafuckers, they be beefing for real. Ā
DX: I donāt know if they beef like west coast cats, though.
Knoc-TurnāAl: Nah, Iām just saying they be beefing with intelligence. Iām talking about like, when they start talking about you they just start saying some outlandish shit. Niggas on the west coast, if you say the wrong thing, muthafuckers try to come hunt you down and ring your doorbell. Māfuckers try to come get you for real. āWhere that nigga live at? I know that nigga didnāt just say that. Where that nigga live at? Ding Dong. You better answer the door, nigga. You been talking all that shit.ā [Laughs] I say that in one of my lyrics. I say, āThese niggas internet bang. / I ring your doorbell.ā [Laughs]
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DX: Thatās on Knocsāville?
Knoc-TurnāAl: Thatās on āBeen Here For Yearsā with Crooked I. Yeah, [Knocsāville].
DX: Are you working on Detox? Are you going to be on there?
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Knoc-TurnāAl: I did a couple songs for it. It just depends on what Dre picks. You never know the direction heās going to go with it. Heās a perfectionist so if somethingās just a little bit out of line, heās not going to release it, heās going to do something different with it. Heās scientific with the shit, thatās why he calls himself the Doctor. I remember I was in the studio with him one time and he had bought some new machine or whatever and he was messing with it for two days over a drum beat. I was like, āWhat is he doing?ā And once he finally got that one sound right, it was on from there because he just kept doing it over the drum beat that he had. He just kept messing with the sounds and shit, but he was doing it for like two days. Then he was like, āI found it!ā and put it inside the drum beat. But when his shit comes out, itās always dope. Ā
DX: Do you listen to the new artists coming out of California?
Knoc-TurnāAl: Yeah. I listen to them sometimes.
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DX: Are you feeling anybody?
Knoc-TurnāAl: Iām kind of disappointed.
DX: Are you really?
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Knoc-TurnāAl: Yeah, they need to step it up.
DX: Thereās some cats, though. Kendrick Lamar is really spitting. Odd Future is everywhere right now. Do you think about cats like that?
Knoc-TurnāAl: Yeah, theyāre cool but I just feel like, when you dedicate yourself to something, youāre supposed to make sure itās flawless. You always gonna have some haters out there. Iām not saying that theyāre not doing a pretty good job. Iām just saying from what Iāve heard and what Iāve been seeing, you know like with Glasses [Malone] and a few other people, I think that they need to really focus because when we do this shit, weāve got to take this shit over and that aināt easy to do. So weāve got to stay focused as a unit on the west coast is all Iām saying. Iām focused on what I need to be doing, but we need to be focused on the mission that weāre trying to accomplish which is take this shit over ā not individually but as a collective, you know what I mean?
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DX: I want to take this back to that original quote that I started with: āOkay, Iāll admit I got lazy. / Cause I aināt like those other suckas, / Dre paid me. / The reason why you know my name is cause Dre made me.ā D.O.C. recently did an interview with HipHopDX and he was talking about how heās not working with Dre or ghostwriting for Dre anymore and heās basically saying the exact opposite of what you say in that line ā that he never got his royalties the way he felt like he should have for ghostwriting so much. Ā
Knoc-TurnāAl: I donāt know why. I aināt never have no problems.
DX: Right. Well, thatās the question: what made your relationship or your situation with Dre so different? I know you were introduced to him through a mutual friend and he was just on board the whole time. And throughout your career, youāve never had a problem getting Dre beats, whereas you hear that story quite often. A lot of people had difficulty at least getting Dre in the studio because he was working on Detox. That never seemed to be the case with you.Ā Ā Ā
Knoc-TurnāAl: Well maybe itās because a lot of times when we were in the studio I wasnāt necessarily looking for a handout. I had money in my pocket. When he was ordering food, I wasnāt ordering food just because he was ordering food. I ordered food because I wanted to eat and I paid for it. If youāre sitting there ordering something every time heās ordering something and heās got to pay for everythingā¦When we go out, Iāll go to the bar and get me a drink. Heāll go and get a bottle or whatever, but Iāll still go get me a drink at the bar. I guess itās kind of like, when you have a lot of people around you that aināt trying to pay their way and he sees somebody thatās trying to pay their way even though they aināt got it like that, I guess he leaned a little bit towards me more. I donāt know. I canāt explain it but I know that I tried as least as possible to make him have to pay for anything. I wanted to show him I wasnāt there just because heās got some money. I was there because I respected him and I respected him for the pioneer that he is for the west coast and I was glad to be there.
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One time he got aggravated with me because I was working on my birthday in the studio with him for like 12 hours and somebody told him the next day, āYou know it was Knocās birthday yesterday.ā He was like, āWhat?! Nigga, why aināt you tell me it was your birthday, Knoc Knoc?ā I was like, āNigga, what else could I be doing except writing songs with Dr. Dre on my birthday? What the fuck you talking about?ā I think it was simple shit like that that made him say, āOkay, this nigga can roll.ā Fuck my birthday. Shit, Iām writing songs with Dr. Dre! [Laughs] Shit. You know what Iām saying? This nigga crazy, talking about why I aināt tell him it was my birthday. Nigga, Iām working! Fuck my birthday.
DX: I have one last question for you. Honestly, Knoc, I really appreciate this. I was looking forward to this interview just off the strength of how talented you are and how curious Iāve been about where you went. I think more than anything else, in order to really compete right now in a flooded music environment, youāve got to be a talented person. Talent is always going to rise. Youāve never had that problem. You never had any gimmicks. You never had any stray little Iāma-pimp-this-one-thing-too-far. You were always a well rounded artist. But after nine years, almost ten years with exposure and being in music and all of this stuff ā what still surprises you about Hip Hop?
Knoc-TurnāAl: [Laughs] What always surprises me about Hip Hop is the songs that people listen to because you never expect that song to be a hit. But this is how it is in Hip Hop. You never know whatās going to be a hit until you put it out there. Thatās what always surprises me. Like, who would think [DJ Webstar & Young Bās] āChicken noodle soup with a soda on a sideā [song] wouldāve been at the top of the charts? If youāre eating chicken noodle soup you aināt eating it with a soda. Youāre drinking water. If times are that bad, you aināt got no damn soda. Youāre drinking water. Might be tap water, not even bottled water, you never know. Or tap water with some ice, nigga, with your chicken noodle soup. [Laughs] It never ceases to amaze me how you never know whatās going to end up being a hit. So for all those people that think that they canāt do it and people tell you that youāre song aināt [hot], just think about how that song was a hit.