Watching The Throne: New York's Drought Of Rap Kings

For Rap overall, New York not being in control is emblematic of an evolutionary shift in the genre to possibly something greater-than-Rap.

This past Sunday, March 9, marked the anniversary of the passing of the Notorious B.I.G. Aside from proclaiming himself the King of New York a la Christopher Walken’s character, Frank White, Biggie is regarded in some circles as the greatest rapper of all time. In April, Hip Hop will also be collectively taking a nostalgic look at Nas’ Illmatic album, as the five-mic rated project celebrates its 20th anniversary. Since both of those landmark events—the death of Notorious B.I.G. and the release of Illmatic—contenders to the throne of being Hip Hop’s most dominant emcee have been plentiful, but not particularly long lasting.

There was a time when the idea that Rap’s greatest rapper representing Rap’s birthplace of New York City was important. There’s an important cultural tie to the idea that Rap can leave New York, travel around the world, and then come back “home” again. Once back home, the unique gift of assessing the genre’s new cultural cues and assimilating them into the New York-born Rap styles imbued the genre with a renewed and expanded sense of strength, purpose and connectivity. However, in the king of Rap either not being in New York (or not existing at all), the questions of who didn’t accept the throne, why they didn’t accept the throne, what New York not being the kingdom ruled by Rap’s king means and when does this era come to an end all deserve answering.

Why Has New York’s Rap Throne Remained Vacant?

Marcus K. Dowling: 50 Cent and Jay Z ultimately failed the classic standard of Rap music. Eleven times out of 10, big business corrupts the organic influences of any creative process, thus allowing for swift (and oftentimes damaging) revolutionary changes to occur. With Jay Z now selling an album to Samsung for release and 50 Cent cashing out of the game (well, many games) on multiple occasions to engage in empire building, the level of creative output needed to maintain New York’s hold on the throne was not reached.

Omar Burgess: If I’m following you correctly, this is a perfectly fair question, but maybe it’s the wrong one at this particular time. Jay once quipped, “The City Is Mine,” in regards to Biggie handing him the crown as New York Rap’s de facto king. And 50 had designs on the crown since he threatened to put four shots through the door of Jigga’s Bentley coupe on “How To Rob.”

But how many emcees have really cared about being the King of New York in the last decade? In his 2011 autobiography, My Infamous Life, Mobb Deep’s Prodigy asserts that one of the reasons for his short-lived beef with Jay Z was essentially due to New York pride.

“Jay-Z couldn’t confront the issue that started our whole drama,” P wrote. “The debate was about Jay not being active in the Rap beef with Snoop and Tupac and how he waited years, until ‘Pac and Biggie got murdered, to start running his lips about ‘New York’s been soft ever since Snoop came and crushed the buildings…’”

Fast-forward to 2014, and as you mentioned, many of the Empire State’s top emcees are more focused on empire building. When Maino recently dropped his K.O.B. [King of Brooklyn] project, even he admitted that heavyweights like Jay had grown beyond borough dominance. Maybe the real question is, what’s being the king of New York worth in 2014?

Why Did The “Next Kings” Not Accept Responsibility For New York?

Marcus K. Dowling: Jay Z’s 1996 debut, Reasonable Doubt and 50 Cent’s 2003-released freshman album, Get Rich or Die Tryin’ stand as unquestionable moments of New York Rap’s supremacy over all other national or global standards of Rap excellence. They rode the wave of Rap music’s most opulent era, allowing both emcees to expand from being just rappers to re-entering the industry by legalized means. The hustle was on, and both rappers excelled at not just a) being great rappers, but b) being great representatives of exactly what New York-based emcees should aspire to as kings of industry when industry came to Rap.

However, when recording profits began to slip, both Jay Z and 50 Cent (when both could be considered iconic kings of both New York and Rap) quietly slipped off the crown and ascended to a wholly corporate and industrial space greater than Rap itself. From cashing out his Vitamin Water deal in 2007, starting the Street King energy beverage and SMS (audio and promotions brand) companies in 2011 and now leaving Interscope Records for an indie label deal, he’s gone from being the king, to willfully leaving the throne and becoming a businessman who raps for fun. Insofar as guidance for New York, it’s apparent that 50 is likely far more out for his own interests than for the interests of New York, or even Rap itself.

As well, in being another ultimate hustler who flipped the King of New York crown for dough, Jay Z became (in a manner similar to 50 Cent) another ultimately self-interested mega mogul whose connection to Rap is real, but connection to his city is possibly best only useful for his own corporate branding needs. Between 2007 and 2014, Jay Z has sold Rocawear, dissolved Roc-a-Fella, been President of Def Jam [Jay assumed the Def Jam presidency in 2004], started Roc Nation Management (under promotions giant Live Nation), started the 40/40 Club chain, purchased a stake in the New Jersey Nets (and was a key piece in ensuring the franchise became the Brooklyn Nets with a brand new arena), executive produced the music on a video game, started an agency for athlete representation, released a (pre-release) platinum-selling album with Samsung and effectively became a billionaire by merging assets through marriage with Beyonce Knowles.

At the same time as he was becoming a global mogul, with incredible efficiency he’s released four albums in those seven years that have seen his level of critical respect as a rapper wane, while his pop cultural influence grows. More so than anything 50 Cent has done, what Jay Z has done in possibly placing the throne of New York Rap (and thus the king of all things Hip Hop culture) on top of the mountain of pop culture overall, he may have made the throne inaccessible to other local New York competitors not nurtured and guided by Jay during his rise in order to reach the throne.

Omar Burgess: I’d argue that 50 Cent was never truly King of New York. Get Rich Or Die Tryin’ represented a great moment in terms of showcasing Rap’s crossover potential, and teaming up with Dr. Dre and Eminem was an incredibly smart move. With half of the Empire State still salty at 50 Cent for “How To Rob,” and some career damaging shots to Ja Rule, 50 Cent was more like New York’s evil dictator. And while Reasonable Doubt was classic status, I think Get Rich Or Die Tryin’ was a really good, accessible album but far from an unquestionable moment of New York’s global dominance. I’d argue any New York dominance ended at the turn of the 21st century.

But beyond all the above, I don’t think accepting responsibility for New York is profitable. The identifying characteristics of traditional, Golden Era New York Hip Hop created from roughly 1991 through 1996 are rather limiting. Can a mainstream rapper make a string of hit singles (let alone an album) powered by obscure samples, solid, yet lo-fi drums and intricate wordplay based on similes and metaphors? I grew up on that style of Hip Hop, and I don’t see it happening. Aiming to be Rap’s king of New York might get you critical acclaim but not much else if you have designs on being a commercially successful, mainstream rapper. And about I think today’s most commercially successful, mainstream rappers view rapping as just one of many business ventures. For most of the top, commercial artists, rapping is just something you do until your TV sitcom gets renewed for another season, your signature alcohol beverage gets worldwide distribution or your clothing line’s sales skyrocket.

I agree with your assertion that Jay (intentionally or otherwise) placed the throne of New York Rap on top of the mountain of pop culture. Aside from just making the throne inaccessible to anyone without Jay, 50 or Diddy’s considerable capital, I think that removes some of what makes Rap special. Pop culture bleaches the soul of everything it co-opts. If rapping is just another parlor trick you can bust out on your way to riding high on the pop culture zeitgeist, what’s to stop someone like Miley Cyrus or Katy Perry from trying their hand at dropping 16 bars? When was the last time one of the most bar-for-bar, technically proficient rappers was also one of the most commercially successful mainstream performers? If the art of rapping itself isn’t held in high regard—and the fact that popular Rap contributors are giving Miley and Katy a free pass to rhyme makes me think it isn’t—then the specific type of Rap that caused New York to be perceived as a cultural innovator probably won’t be held in high regard either.

When Did N.Y. Lose Control And What Does That Mean For Hip Hop?

Marcus K. Dowling: Isn’t it funny that we mention the word “control,” here? Maybe the most damning thing to come out of Kendrick Lamar’s verse on Big Sean’s “Control” was not the millions of other “Control” verses it spawned, but rather the fact that the verses were spawned because Kendrick was right about everything he said—even taking Rap’s arguably vacant crown away from the five boroughs. Mainstream Rap is easily akin to a room that’s kept dark by the homeowner so that the cockroaches don’t run free. Rap’s arguably become so commercialized that rappers aren’t button-pushing bellwethers for cultural change, but rather interchangeable entertainers owned lock, stock and barrel by a cabal of record labels struggling to maintain their market share in a depressed era. In not being anybody’s roach, Kendrick turned on the light, and while some roaches ran wild, others just laid back in the filth as though nothing troubling had even occurred.

Of the metaphorical cockroaches attempting to scurry up the leg of Kendrick Lamar, the ones from New York City (namely artists like Maino) are possibly the most concerning. Making threats to a man while still on all fours as a roach is laughable at best. Yes, it’s difficult to first rise up against a label and industry structure that is engineered at-present to keep you in a dark corner, but when you’re the progeny of kings, to act like a serf is absolutely shameful. As well, seeing the A$AP Mob as well-dressed cockroaches turning up and shooting dice in filth instead of excelling at doing what is necessary to assume the throne and maintain a semblance of Rap’s classic ideals (A$AP Nast’s “Trillmatic” is an improvement, but far from the “Control” level performance required for a seismic shift in the Rap game) is troubling, as they have the juice, but have turned it into lean, and just don’t seem to care.

For Rap overall, New York not being in control is emblematic of an evolutionary shift in the genre to possibly something greater-than-Rap. Talent in Rap is now widespread, and corporate interests, branding and alternative sources of commerce are now super-important to the health of the industry, too. What this may possibly mean is that a concept of Rap wherein New York is the hub is outmoded, which means that something new (and less based on the idea of Rap traveling globally and having to only return to New York to regenerate) must develop. What will that be? The jury is still out. But the evolution is certainly underway

Omar Burgess: New York hasn’t ushered in any groundbreaking innovations in Rap since about 1998, which I think is around the time the South took control. I think the South’s current dominance has less to do with what Southern Rap detractors insultingly refer to as “being simple” and more to do with where and how people are interacting with Hip Hop culture. A very small percentage of the population is interacting with Hip Hop via graffiti writing, B-boying and deejaying. Once that gradual shift happened, New York failed to adapt by introducing any stylistic or technical innovation. Things are looking up for a select group of Big Apple emcees and producers. Guys like Action Bronson and Joey Bada$$ are being well received. There are elements of their respective styles (sample-based, boom bap production, heavy use of metaphors and similes) that remind fans of the Golden Era. If they can own that comparison while still experimenting with their styles, they won’t necessarily take the crown, but a consistent track record goes a long way in improving the roach-den analogy you introduced. Will guys like Bronson, Bada$$ and the A$AP Mob be embraced for what they are or ignored for what they’re not while New Yorkers look for the next charismatic, hyper-rhyming mogul-in-the-making who reps N.Y. til the death?

Luckily, New York not being in control isn’t some death knell for Hip Hop. Detroit used to manufacture the best automobiles, but the global car industry didn’t cease to exist just because Japan and Korea cornered the market on stylish, fuel-efficient cars while the US was churning out gas guzzling Escalades. New York will always be revered as the birthplace of Hip Hop, but the best Hip Hop is usually produced in regions that are busy innovating. In all fairness, there are huge socioeconomic factors (too many to name here) usually spawning that innovation. But if New York isn’t in control of Rap, it probably means too many members of the New York Hip Hop ecosystem are talking about “taking it back.” Hip Hop was built upon innovation. When New York starts to push forward and evolve the next iteration of Hip Hop, there’s a good chance you’ll see the crown back atop the five boroughs. But Hip Hop is going to continue to evolve even if that never happens.

Marcus Dowling is a veteran Washington, DC-based writer who has contributed to a plethora of online and print magazines and newspapers over the past fifteen years. Follow him on Twitter at @marcuskdowling.

Omar Burgess is a Long Beach, California native who has contributed to various magazines, newspapers and has been an editor at HipHopDX since 2008. Follow him on Twitter @omarburgess.

142 Comments

  • shok

    To talk king of New York and not mention Nas is bul****. This article sucks.

  • Anonymous

    It's because NY has a specific sound. Sampled production and club shit you can harlem shake to. the NY style rap just doesn't sound good on trap beats that goons listen to and it won't work on gay techno beats that underground hipsters like. the key is SAMPLE production. It starts with talented producers

  • Anonymous

    This to me being 80 baby best time in hip hop and its cuz mixtapes.u want lyrical rappers? Put in effort and find them cuz they giving way music online, u just not gonna see them on billboard. and nyc will always be on top and we make legends plus lets be real if the south say shit about nyc these niggas will destroy em on the mic.kendrick say a comment a bunch of lyrical mcs checked him and he did not dare respond.that's the power of nyc we sleeping giants.south ain't really running anything they just got better production.

  • Anonymous

    Hip hop ain't dead

  • Anonymous

    seemed more like an article about jay and 50 to me

  • NAS

    1 reference to NAS (and it wanst evern entertaining the fact of him being king) - Never sold out - stayed relevant and has a cult following for over 20 year. I genuinely wonder about HipHopDX!!

  • Anonymous

    This article has zero relevance to NY hip hop and its effect on the game. You got plenty of legends and futures legends doing their thing in NY (Joey Badass, Action Bronson, Flatbush Zombies, ASAP mob, Wu-tang, Mobb deep, Onyx, Nas, LOX, ect). Who is the king of hip hop? I don't believe there is one. Great artists reach and inspire people bottom line. Its not a south thing, a west thing, or an east thing. The world is a platform for hip hop. Stop adding labels with your watered down article.

  • Anonymous

    Man wtf? So only New York is supposed to have rap kings? Is New York the only city in the country??? SMH fuck outta here you supremacist muthaphuckkaz

  • Anonymous

    50 CENT: june 3rd Animal Ambition featuring DR DRE,Prodigy,JadaKiss,Styles-P,Yo-gotti,Kidd Kidd MORE TO BE REVEALED SOON.

  • Anonymous

    New York artist and lyrical mcs from anywhere are becoming a dying breed. The youth forgot emceeing is a part of hip hop. I know lyrical beast from every coast that dont get any recognition and if they do its all negativity from these younger fans. So in reality new York isnt the only one suffering its nice mcs everywhere feeling the pain. And wtf is with this kendrick is king shit. Lil dude nice and all but niggas lose it once they go radio. Gkmc was a decent album it wasnt no section #80. Same thing goes for school Boy q had high expectations for this dude but look what happened. Oxymoron was disappointing. J cole same thing shit I even heard wiz kill a mobb dedo beat look at him now. So to king k.dot is outrageous imo. Kings drop dope shit and keep getting better not change shit up to please the radio and go downhill.

  • Jiga

    Jay and Nas and many other rappers>>>>>overrated biggie with 2 albums lol

  • Absetiley92

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  • Sham

    Fuck this article. Not because they are necaccerily wrong,but because they failed to mention two of the best rap acts in New York! FLATBUSH ZOMBIES THE UNDERACHIEVERS! and joey badass is lyrically amazing, Action Bronson is an hilarious, and A$AP Rocky is still a great and creative rapper. Ferg is ok but you cant diss New York Rap like that. and im not even from new york...

  • Azar

    Based on hip hop sales, influence and body of work you could call Jay-Z the king of all Hip Hop easily. Not anyone from the west or for damn sure the south. Maybe Em but he is not business or empire minded and the south are just grasping their ability to read and put bars together.

    • Thomas

      Are we forgetting OutKast, Big K.R.I.T., Scareface, UGK? Just the sheer fact that Speakerbox/Love Below is 11 Million sold domestically shows that the South has a credible place in sales. If anything, OutKast is what Jay-Z is to New York. Please don't rule out a region in Hip-Hop just because a majority of the acts are watered down. Each region has their outliers who have influence and great body of work. Outkast is that for the South.

  • Anonymous

    Fuck new york...Its gentrified now, which means less people who would be interested in this. Before that, everyone was loving the south and its songs that came with an accompanying dance and new york rappers were confused mainly because 50 (who is prominently mentioned here) was actively trying to sound southern. Jay on the other hand never limited himself because he is purely in it for the money..he doesnt care about culture, or continuance. also, that era was fun but its gone now. Not to say what it has been replaced with is better, but there are still people maing dope music out here and they dont need to be called kings of some over-crowded shitty city to do so.

  • Anonymous

    You got dudes dressing funny and dancing. No one read anymore, Nas can't spit lyrical bars when you got 15 and 17 year olds with no culture. They smoked out and drugged out on Lean and weed. Plus you got artist who are in their 30's trying to relate music to kids. Then you don't have young MCs beside Joey BadAzz.

  • Anonymous

    To say Jay is not hiphop is crazy. This dude talks street hustle in his bars. He told you dude Im not a rapper. He is a Hustla. Rapper rap for words to match an MC moves the crowd and make stories of his or her words. Paint a picture. Jay paint pictures, he talk on subjects that Hustla understand. He drop jewels on you dude MANSA MUSA (read on it.) Fred Hampton etc. The man put ski mask in Barneys Black ski mask. SKi MAsk Way fuck a ransom note( biggie verse.) I think forget he was in the white house with the President and still talked about moving coke back in the day ( i had that bitch on a rope). Please coroporate he may be but hood and still street is still in his lyrics. You talk about him for still speaking from his experience. WINNING IS THE SAME AS LOSING WHEN YOU DO it to long. WHEN Jordan was winning so much the love turns to hate.

    • oladiossmoz

      OP your the man for that post...took the words right from my mouth, put them on the screen! preach brother!

    • Anonymous

      How is Jay Pop culture. He is hiphop, he don't speak on any subject that is pop culture. His lyrics are still hiphop, pop culture crossedover to him. What song was pop culture, Niggas in Paris title speak for itself. The Devil is Lie his verse was far from Pop Culture. What people do is take the fact that Pop Culture has covered his music and it make people believe he is pop. But his lyrical content is still hiphop.

    • Anonymous

      i recognise jay as pop culture now, came up and was an inspiration but really not saying anything, just a corporate robot who has managed to stay in the mainstream in front of your tv screens

  • AR

    Its not just one thing, that's for sure. But a couple of things that play a role are the sound and the lyrical content. The boom bap sound that came out of not just New York, but the whole east coast is considered "old school" when kids today hear it. And immediately you know they're gonna say, "Get them old ass rappers outta here." As far as the lyrical content goes, kids TODAY do not want to hear rappers talking about grown up, everyday life situations. Nor do they wanna hear a rapper that is a dope rhymer. They want to hear rappters talk about a lifestyle that they aspire to live one day. Bling bling, bitches, booty shaking, night life, poppin bottles at the club, driving a 100,000 dollar Lamborgini, Rolex watches,tight shirts, skinny jeans, etc. Or they wanna hear that snap trap gangsta shit, with guns, drug running, drinking lean, etc. Basically its just the mentality of the youth of today. They want shit that's accessible and hearing an MC talk about stuff that makes them think, its not accessible. Being an artist who acts like a grown man and is low key, not all over Twitter or Instagram is not accessible. Its why Lil Wayne, Drake, Pitbull, Nikki Minaj, Kanye West, Rick Ross, Big Sean, Wiz Kalifa, are all so popular.Their content, beats, perceived lifestyle, plus social media presence is what these kids like to hear, see, and fantasize about.

  • Azar

    BTW I would vote Nas as King of NY but its just not realistic or factual.

  • Azar

    Simple Answer not everyone wants to hear. Jay-Z is so the king of NY he doesn't even have to claim it or defend it. DONE DEAL. Does that mean he puts out the best music... no.... but still he is the top of the food chain in HipHop.

  • Anonymous

    These kids dont care about lyrics anymore thats why new York is suffering so bad. And its not just new York either dope emcees from any coast unless your kendrick will get any props. Niggas like Wayne and Ross got these kids thinking being lyrical is for nerds or its for old rappers who need to retire. They think its all about beats, hooks gimmicks and money. Lyrics are for people stuck in the past. Only reason kendricks popular now is because hes making radio shit now. When I told niggas about kendrick before sec #80 niggas was saying kendrick who? He cant fuck with Drake. Now niggas wanna jump the bandwagon when its too late. Drake fans are now k.dot fans. Youngsters want some advice turn off the radio or at least dont let it tell you whats dope and whats not. And fuck all the other shit these artist blind you with the dope artist are the ones bringing the shit on the mic.

  • MUGSHOTONE

    Y'ALL STILL AIN'T SEEING THE BIG PICTURE....AND LIKE HOMEBOY SAID THERE'S A NEW WAVE BUT U STILL NOT SEEING NOR SHOWING RESPECT TO THE HEADS LIKE OC...THE ARTIFACTS...FEL SWEETENBERG...ALL DOPE..AND ASIDE THAT HAVE A QUICK LISTEN OF HOW I GET DOWN...TRUST AFTER U HEAR ONE ILL TRACK YOU'LL WANNA HEAR MORE..MY MUSIC'S LIKE PRINGOS CAN'T JUST HAVE ONE...SAVOR THE FLAVZ...https://soundcloud.com/t-a-s-p-mugshotonenns

    • Azar

      Yes, your music must be great since your entire paragraph is in ALL CAPS. Moron. Back to the ghetto you go.

  • TheGreatest

    Agree... Nas is the King of New York! And... The King of Rap period! Dudes flow is unparalleled. It was never Biggie's, Never Jay, and it is definitely not Diddy or 50. This is such a wack ass topic! Nas, period! End of Stupid story! Illmatic and It was written. . That is all have to say... And Life is Good after 20 years! Rappers only last for 1 or 2. Shit Nas all day!!!

    • Anonymous

      Also I might add that most people say biggie was responsible for new yorks resurgence. Not entirely true. Wu tang clan and black moon brought that new New York sound that brought New York hip hop out of the shadows and gave it sound. Nas released the underrated illmatic at the time and continued that New York resurgence. But what happened next changed the game for ever. While snoop and dre were killing the game. There was no bigger artist in the rap game than snoop doggy dogg and death row records was killing it. West coast hip hop and that g funk sound and gangsta rap was the dominant form of hip hop. When biggie came on the scene he became the biggest artist in New York. After his album he was the biggest in the game. Finally a New York artist sold more records then the snoops of the world. Biggie had become the biggest.

    • Grove street g's

      That's why he is the king of New York. Nice read bro.

    • Anonymous

      It was never biggies? Biggie was known as the king of New York. Because he was the BIGGEST artist in New York in the mid 90s. When he featured on the cover of source magazine it just cemented it. I like Nas too. To me he is the only one that can claim king of New York status at the moment. But there will only be one and should be one artist known as king of New York and that's biggie. The dude passed away as the biggest rapper in the game. Out of respect for him let him keep that title. Nas don't have a problem with that. You shouldn't either. To me biggie, rakim, krs one and Nas are the best to ever do it whatever order you want to put them in. But biggie is the king of New York his alias was frank white so argue with the title. R.i.p biggie Smalls. "Cos the greatest rapper of all time died on March 9th." Canibus

  • OneLove

    Agree! Nas will always be King of New York to me. His shit will be timeless! The dude lyrical content is off the charts. Again, Jay has all the numbers and money, but he ain't no way pound for pound better than Nas lyrically. Illmatic cemented Nas forever. The greatest album and he is the greatest lyrist of all time. Sorry but Nas will always be that dude and his shit will be planted when we are dead and gone! Nas, the greatest of all time! Period! King of New York, King of the South, and the King of the West! No rapper is at that dude level. Just listen to his shits!!! Even the so call bad albums are mine boggling! Lyrical content and flow is unmatched!!!!

  • Ricky Rozay

    most of these rappers aint REAL niggas. Word, Nas bankrupt never was a drug runner, Lil Wayne aint no blood, Jeezy aint no BMF, 50 a snitch, Game a stripper, 2pac a ballerina, Drake was gay. None of these niggas real you guys. If they was all real they all be dead now. Like it or not Ross is the new biggie. BAWSE!!!

    • Anonymous

      you been posting the same comment for like 3 years. the fact is your boy was a cop and lied about it. the fakest nigga in rap history.

  • lol

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1O6M2qyIEzs

  • DCboutit

    Jay is not the king of NY. As far as global influence, media exposure, promotion, and businesses derived from or completely external to rap, Jay has been the King of rap let alone NY for a long time now. But that isn't what decided the NY RAP throne for the years when all NYs best emcees were still breathing. So it shouldn't be what decides it now. And in those days, where was Jay again? Riding Jaz-o. But I digress. Jay's body of work since Black Album in no way justifies his claim to the title. Just think about what he has put out since 2003. American Gangster was the best of the bunch, but really not much better than Kingdom Come, both of which were readily apparent nosedives from the highs of Black Album, Blueprint, Vol. 2, Reasonable Doubt. I would put Dynasty, Vol. 1, and BP2 over Kingdom Come, and I would put Vol. 1 and Dynasty over American Gangster. Those viewing AG as one of the four or five best albums in Jay's catalogue are sorely misguided. Learn to separate when Jay succeeds at complementing marvelous production and when he CLEARLY doesn't. Over the whole of both Kingdom Come and AG, Jay is doing the latter. Out of respect for Jay, no discussion of WTT, BP3, and ESPECIALLY MCHG is needed. Just know that not a single one warrants a non-weed plate description. Simply not getting it done remotely Jay, MUSICALLY. Be reminded that getting it done MUSICALLY is what gets the NY throne. Nas has had it since Jay was fighting tears on HOT97, and LIG did not at all signal a departure from the state of things, Jay fanboys inability to divorce between the MUSIC ITSELF and every other aspect of a rapper's life notwithstanding. And to those who say "oh Nas isn't relevant, Ross sells more" and so forth, shut the fuck up and eat a dick. I don't feel inclined to let an artist's popularity color my particular assessment of the quality of his/her music. And while you lames have been whining about Nas' numbers, his beat selection, Kelis, the IRS, and his problems with his family (uniquely pathetic), Nas sold 20 million with 8 platinum discs. AND NO HUGE SINGLES. How did that happen? GOOD ASS MUSIC. So in summary, no Jay is not the king of NY. Biggest and best rapper-mogul sure. Most marketable MC next to Eminem, absolutely. Top 5 of all time so long as he doesn't drop a couple more coasters, I'm with that. Just not NYs king. Nas got it locked

    • Solid

      @DCboutit I agree with most of what you said. And while it's true that Nas is the best to ever do it, I still give the Greatest Of All Time title to Big because of what he was able to do in such a short period of time and with just 2 albums. The fact that he still remains in the discussion and is still regarded as King Of New York or GOAT after Pac, Nas, Jay, Em, 50, Jada, Big L or whoever else you wanna add to the conversation all had quadruple the amount of time and albums as him speaks volumes of the impact and mark Big left on the game. Till this day his songs are some of the only classics still played in clubs throughout the country and people know every word, including the young generation. Another thing is a lot of people tend to overlook performance ability. And while Jay might not be your particular choice for GOAT, KONY, or T5DOA he gives some of the best shows I've ever seen from a rapper. That dude rocks sold out arenas, coliseums, and stadiums by himself. Not these local clubs, gyms, and small theater venues that some of these other rappers perform at with their whole block on stage. Not to mention he has the whole audience singing along and finishing his lines as he performs because they know every word. So while I do agree that Nas is by far the better lyricist and GOAT, in my opinion Jay is the better performer with a bit more consistency and commercial success. Now another rapper that seems to be overlooked in this conversation is Pun. He was just as lyrical if not more than all of the above mentioned names, and like Biggie he was able to accomplish a whole lot in such a short period of time, and with just 2 albums. He was the first latin rapper to go platinum and I remember that being a huge accomplishment at the time. Especially that he did it with his first album. His Yeeah Baby album wasn't as good as Capital Punishment but he still had hits on there too and left his mark in the game with many memorable verses and Hip Hop quo tables. So he's right up there as one of the GOATS as well.

  • bewitness

    This article can't be serious, denying that Jay-z has been the King of NY. Even if you think Jay and the same Jay, you can't deny his classics Reasonable Doubt Vol 2 The Dynasty The Blueprint The Black Album Not to mention all the hot verses, come on hiphopdx pay respect to a dude, that's ultimately why New York has not had a King since Jay-Z, New York cab doesn't give respect when respect is due.

    • oladiossmoz

      did the underground...made classics...made Hip-Hop more relevant in the mainstream...reps his brother who was the true King of NY...intellectual verses...has hits...affiliated with any rappers who have been categorized as greats (Big L, Kane, Biggie), held his own against the greatest LYRICIST in the game (Nas)...become a boss of the business instead of a slave...broke records...and is fucking Beyonce...(just another perspective how I feel Jay-Z should be perceived) too much negativity...too many loses

    • Selorm

      why is it that people feel the need to say Jay-Z wouldn't be successful if it wasn't for Beyonce like that made any difference lool they got married in 2008, you mean to tell me Jay-Z wasn't that guy around that time let alone earlier lol....niggas always tries to find a way to undermine Jay-Z's success like it didn't happen haha

    • Anonymous

      Jay is not a king. if he didn't wife Beyonce he would be just another NY bum rapper like fat joe, nas and prodigy

  • Anonymous

    SMH! I can't believe I actually read this bullshit!

  • Sam Snead

    It's because dance and dope boy music was so popular for so long that the NYC style fell out of mainstream appeal. The older NYC MC's can still rock it and then you got younger MC's in the game from LA and Detroit carrying the torch.

  • Anonymous

    This article is senseless. JAY Z is without any doubt King of NY and rap right now.

  • The Biz

    i see you all jocking Jay Z or Watching Jay Z.

  • bro

    22 two'z for yall broke niggaz

  • Anonymous

    Yawl can't take shit out of context. NY rap got tired and everybody got excited for other regions. If you were around then you KNOW this. NY ALL OF A SUDDEN was trying to be like LA. after Deathraw took over. Bloods & Crips in NY REEEAAAALLYYYY? Puffy modeled Biggies whole sound off of what Dre was doing with Snoop & Pac.

    • Solid

      When did Puffy model Biggie's whole sound from what Dre did with Snoop and Pac? Like what did I miss? I'll give you that West Coast was on top for a lil minute and were the originators of Gangsta Rap but that's about it. Big came with a whole different approach at the time and put out albums with a variety of styles rather than catering to one style or audience for a particular region. And the sound Puffy provided was reinvented classics with the ability to clear those samples which nobody was able to do as well as him. It was totally different from what anybody was doing at the time. And although a lot of cats considered that biting back then it was still unique in the sense that they were the first to do it in the genre of Hip Hop. But Big was def one of the most versatile rap artist ever and proved it within the listen of any one of his albums. That's why I think he's held in such high regard as the GOAT because him being as versatile as he was allowed him to showcase his skills in a way that now after his death and with only 2 albums under his belt we still mention him in the Greatest Of All Time category. Had he not been as versatile as he was he might not even be in that conversation. But if you go back and listen to his albums you will hear the journeys Big used to take you on. From his story telling ability, to his flow, to his player shit for the ladies, to his down south style songs, west coast style songs, gangsta shit, etc. Pac was very versatile too but in no way did Big try to sound like him. I think Big learned a lot from Pac and soaked up the jewels Pac gave him as would any new rapper coming into a game that was being dominated by a multitalented artist like Pac. I remember Big admitted that Pac told him to make records for th females because they're thrones that buy albums. So Big taking his advice he went and did the Big Poppa and Player's Anthem songs. He knew Pac wasn't lying about having to be versatile and how to be successful so he was smart and listened to him and it paid off. Big was the first fat nigga with a player image that was believable just by the way he rhymed and what he said in his lyrics, and of course the videos Bad Boy was putting out. And while I agree that Dre gave Snoop a concept for what would be his signature sound he didn't do that for Pac nearly as much. In fact Pac used to talk about how Dre wasn't working or producing records as much when Pac was recording on All Eyez On Me. That's why pac dissed him too. #Facts

    • la is lame

      so y are la niggaz bothered about king of NY and not king of la?

  • IROC

    No doubt Biggie was a great rapper my only problem Puffy was just Fu%king Biggie music up trying to rap all over the track to be honest 50 got lazy after his 1st big album Jay Z has sold out and dabbling in Devil sh%t has consumed him ,Rap has sunk so low to men wearing skrits and painting finger nails and trying to say they did this for culture right, some industry bum got you looking foolish

  • Shut Up

    Blaming Jay-Z and 50 Cent_ LOL! Pathetic.

  • Anonymous

    Intelligent people find a way to succeed. Dummies and lazy people don't. END OF STORY.

  • Anonymous

    Nas and jays battle was 2001

  • Corporations !!!!!!

    NY fell off for a few reasons...All the radio, Mags, MTV & BET went corporate in the late 90's... Puffy and his bullshit took over instead of Organized Konfusion, Tribe, De La, Wu Tang, Beatnutz, Brand Nubian and all the other dope NY groups...The corps only wanted dumbed down music to get video or radio play.... Basically Mobb deep was replaced by Puffy and Master P. Real NY hip hop got phased out like a dinosaur and was pushed strictly to the underground where cats like me listen to real hop hop....Basically the whole culture went underground including the NY sound that real hip hop cats listen to today.... Other regions started sounding like NY but adding there own flavor to it, Ohio, Boston, Detroit, La & Chicago the only way you can tell where a person or crew is from there accent....Producers started leaving NY and started working with other artists across the country spreading the NY sound and cats copied it... Jay, Snoop,Cash money, 50, Jarule & Eminem ushered in the 2000's and dominated the radio & Videos, woman started digging it because the beats are lyrics were more tailored maid them to dance to... By this time Jay z and 50 were so paid nobody really cared about who was king, they real heads just liked good hip hop regardless of where it's from...Dilated peoples, Slum village, Molemen, J-Zone, All Natural, Mf Doom, Planet Asia and countless others from all over the country started repping the real hip hop from the net.... HIPHOPSITE, sandlot, ughh, fatbeats all kept that real shit bumping for those that never fell off... Blame it on the Corps yo !!!!!!

  • Anonymous

    lol this is the worst article on this subject i ever read

  • Anonymous

    SHIT ARTICLE NEW YORK DOESNT NEED TO STEP AWAY FROM ITS BOOM BAP ROOTS... IF ANYTHING WE NEED HIP HOP TO RETURN TO THAT

  • Sam

    Hov's words are rap music.

  • lol funny

    the title of this topic is similar to the title of the HipHop/Rap king's Album "Watch The Throne" n yall asking whos the king crazy

  • Mr. Tibbs

    At the end of the day the NY hip-hop scene is dead because they lost a sound and a identity. Back in the 90's who the best rappers Biggie, Jay-Z and Nas all NY rappers. And they followed greats like Rakim, Big Daddy Kane, Slick Rick, and KRS-One. Where did this long line of great MC's breakdown? Where is the buzz? Mixtapes? This is why the DJ is important and Hot 97 and the rest of them who do they showcase? It amazes me how hard the NY DJ's came down on the NY rappers after "Control" but at the end of the day ya'll have to represent too. If ya'll playing Drake and Wayne and Gucci all day ya'll not reppin and 60% of the downfall is on ya'll too. And no Rick Ross is not on that iconic level of a Jay-Z or a Nas. He's a busta, not a King. If being "King of NY'" was irrelevant then Kendrick wouldn't have said it.

    • so right

      and JayZ has been about "where am from" and "NY" just like he has been about that $ since a day old so his the king

    • u nut

      hip hop means when u represent where u're from so why is ken trying to act like his from NY? stay true to your zone!

  • Smokey

    I think the real reason NY doesn't really matter anymore is cause they lost the youth. Lets be real, hip hop has always been youth oriented and NY rappers haven't had an ear to what the kids want since chicken noodle soup. Now this doesn't mean just dance tracks. Dipset and Rock a fella were able to connect with young folks, in and outside NYC. New York rappers now just seem to either perform lyrical miracles without any type captivating song structures or bad imitations of other regions sounds. Its not so much that hip hop has changed than NY did. Rappers stopped having fun, look at papoose or any other mixtape rapper who failed to pop off. Make fun music that the youth wants to dance to, ride out to, or turn up with and you'll be relevant again. case closed.

  • Not for hiphop

    Some ppl came alone the line when they think they can't make $ with rap music to say hip hop is dead... You see some thing with fans who are not Jay Z's fans is that they listen to beat and just want to dance or argue like dropouts.... Nas is no where near it even if same lames here think he is. It's obvious that any thing about Hip Hop and rap music is directed to Jigga because he kept the game in the face of audience and made it what ppl will want to consider as music and not rap as most lame could say hiphop/rap is not music. When Jay fought his way through in years back when many rappers says he's old and should retire no one called snoop, dre n so many that was older or had started rap before Hova but now that he kept hip hop alive and making the hiphop/rap music wilder, global and standardized old lame rappers are coming out with same lame concept and all trying their hands on what ever they can put out... We see a lot of his pairs falling off not being able to sell or tour taking his beat to promote them selves. Well I know he let his work speak for him while you fans of other lames do the talking for them. Jay Z is the King Of NY period.

  • Anonymous

    Who cares for new york hiphop? Now we have Ross the new Biggie and Drake the new 2pac. Old rappers are lame. 45 years old and still talk like a little child about your guns, money and flows. Fuck old rappers. Rap is for the kids.

  • Anonymous

    50 cent never was, is and will be the king of NY. 50 cent is lyrical average and was big because dre, em and interscope were backing him up and he had a story to tell but then he kept repeating himself with every album he made. Dont get me started about fabolous, fat joe, LOX those niggaz never made a classic.

    • Anonymous

      50 made jay-z fake his own retirement.

    • OoNo

      I doubt that 50 ran NY from 03 to 07 be it short but who else did it longer Biggie was cut short, Jay comes and goes but managed consistency, Nas was there but don't put too much effort into staying there too inactive for me. LL manage to stay there longer with like 7 straight platinum albums.. But now the crown is up for grabs who knows and who cares at this point Hip Hop aint the same since the hippies took over lol

  • Y'all poor n lame

    I know many fools who don't know hip hop and rap music and what it embodies will jump on my nut after this brief info: look hip hop started in NY and went global now the rappers in NY can't keep doing the same O thing they did back then... Look around you and tell me your environment had been the same from then to now? Hov is the King Of NY and Rap Music as long as the category is concern and if you can't accept let see others do it like him and I mean not spitting lame, myth and other fake things rappers put in their verses I mean say what you're about not just write shit, I mean real shit. Fuck y'all who have got nothing for Hov!!

  • Six Lowa

    NY lost its identity. We have rappers using down south & west coast beats and rap in their flow as well. We also lost our dances and the djs play way more other coast songs on both the air and in clubs.

  • The Ice Cold Phenom

    The Kings of New York alternated from roughly 1986 to now and are listed as follows: First King- Rakim Second King - Kane Third King - Public Enemy (Collective) Fourth King(s) - Nas or B.I.G depending on who you ask Fifth King - Wu Tang (Collective) Sixth King - Jay Z through present day *Honorable Mention - LL Cool J (The old school Cool J) Jay Z has fallen off lyrically but that fact that he is still relevant, influential, and a world icon gives him the nod. No disrespect to 50 Cent but he isn't in the conversation.

    • DCboutit

      With you on everything except the Jay currently claiming NY's throne point. As far as global influence, media exposure, promotion, and businesses derived from or completely external to rap, Jay has been the King of rap let alone NY for a long time now. But that isn't what decided the NY RAP throne for the years when all NYs best emcees were still breathing. So it shouldn't be what decides it now. And in those days, where was Jay again? Riding Jaz-o. But I digress. Jay's body of work since Black Album in no way justifies his claim to the title. Just think about what he has put out since 2003. American Gangster was the best of the bunch, but really not much better than Kingdom Come, both of which were readily apparent nosedives from the highs of Black Album, Blueprint, Vol. 2, Reasonable Doubt. I would put Dynasty, Vol. 1, and BP2 over Kingdom Come, and I would put Vol. 1 and Dynasty over American Gangster. Those viewing AG as one of the four or five best albums in Jay's catalogue are sorely misguided. Learn to separate when Jay succeeds at complementing marvelous production and when he CLEARLY doesn't. Over the whole of both Kingdom Come and AG, Jay is doing the latter. Out of respect for Jay, no discussion of WTT, BP3, and ESPECIALLY MCHG is needed. Just know that not a single one warrants a non-weed plate description. Simply not getting it done remotely Jay, MUSICALLY. Be reminded that getting it done MUSICALLY is what gets the NY throne. Nas has had it since Jay was fighting tears on HOT97, and LIG did not at all signal a departure from the state of things, Jay fanboys inability to divorce between the MUSIC ITSELF and every other aspect of a rapper's life notwithstanding. And to those who say "oh Nas isn't relevant, Ross sells more" and so forth, shut the fuck up and eat a dick. I don't feel inclined to let an artist's popularity color my particular assessment of the quality of his/her music. And while you lames have been whining about Nas' numbers, his beat selection, Kelis, the IRS, and his problems with his family (uniquely pathetic), Nas sold 20 million with 8 platinum discs. AND NO HUGE SINGLES. How did that happen? GOOD ASS MUSIC. So in summary, no Jay is not the king of NY. Biggest and best rapper-mogul sure. Most marketable MC next to Eminem, absolutely. Top 5 of all time so long as he doesn't drop a couple more coasters, I'm with that. Just not NYs king. Nas got it locked

    • Tyrone

      Great list! Maybe add Kool Moe Dee during his Treacherous 3 days, KRS-One and Definitely LL Cool J. Cool J had an amazing run with Radio, Bigger and Deffer and Mama Said Knock you out.

  • WHAT?!?!

    This article makes NO sense. Biggie was great, but don't act like he wasn't commercial. Anything Diddy touches is commercial as hell. AND Biggie released two albums. This GOAT shit with him cracks me up. Dude was ILL. But TWO albums. What Jay has done has stretched the game completely. If you want to say he's pop, then shit's fucked up anyway. His albums aren't stuck in that dumb shit. He continues to evolve and make good MUSIC. Comparing 50 Cent to Jay is comical. 50 is a hustler and I respect him for that. But in terms of lyrics, dude hasn't been the same since GRODT. He has flashes but that is it (Big 10 and Death by Numbers were nice). Jay's deal with Samsung has nothing to do with rap - that's business, man.

    • Anonymous

      Better two Biggie albums then 15 Jay-Z albums!

    • Real Talk

      RTD and LAD change the whole climate of hiphop but only niggas born in the 70s and 80's understand this. BTW 25 songs of Jay-Z aint better then Biggie's who shot ya. jay does not only use biggie rhymes but also his flows and then niggas say jay is great till a 80 or 90's nigga says thats from Biggie.

  • The Truth

    Although I enjoyed reading the article, it is stupid. 50 Cent stopped being considered for New York's throne when he started making shitty music. It is that simple. It culminated with the release of BISD, a major flop that reflects the quality of the album. And Jay's deal with Samsung has nothing to do with this shit, his albums would have gone platinum anyways! just like any other album he has ever released in his entire life. I agree that Jay would have looked bad if he had sold less than 900 000 copies, but he is at 1.2 milli sold now for MCHG. JayZ is still the one and only New York King.

  • DNC

    Biggie is and always be so fucking overrated. He was ill yea but he was really simple there are countless mcs that are way better that dont get the respect or have any loyal dickrider fans. Nas big l and pig pun JUST FROM NY all shit on biggie cmon now

  • Anonymous

    Biggie NEVER said he was the KING of NYC. In 1994 and 1995 the hiphop fans give him that title. Back then NOBODY said 2pac is the greatest! People back then voted for rappers like: krs, rakim, nas, biggie, g rap and big daddy kane to be the greatest. The KING of NYC will Always be: Biggie! Why: - he the flow, lyrics and beats - most of his songs are straight from the dome, without pen and paper he did his songs. Thats talent - He was witty and shocking at the same time - He could go hardcore, underground or commercial. - He didnt lose his respect with making commercial songs because the lyrics were Always there. - if Big was still here we hadnt all those horrible rappers in NYC

  • Sir David

    The reason why new York is not relevant is because the record companies rather pump out ignorant beat driven music. nobody exerscises there Brain to much anymore. so they rather here the ignorant raps.

  • Hmm

    New York fell off because they are still stuck in the 90's. After 20 YEARS, they're still stuck in 1994. All New York emcees ever talk about is 'back in the good old days'. I'm telling you, nothing new has come out of New York for 20 years, and they're still imitating illmatic. You either get with the times and create something new, or you fall behind and perish as a relic. New York in Hip Hop, just like Detroit in automobile manufacturing, is a pathetic shell of what it used to be.

    • Ty

      I disagree, Todays rap is beat driven and nobody really cares about lyricism anymore. Most songs are made for the clubs and radio with really simply lyrics. You guys love trinadad James and Rich Homie Quan. I prefer Drake, Fabolous and other lyrical artists.

    • Manny Faces

      Haha. Switch their style to what? For the past few years people have been saying that NY emcees need to stop trying to sound like they're from down South. So which is it? People need to stop basing their idea of being successful as being "on the radio"... Again, your vision is limited. There are definitely some NY artists riding a retro vibe, but plenty that are not, and doing well, independently, touring the world... No, NYC will never "dominate" again, but NO region will. It's narrow minded to think that in an entire REGION, there are NO "progressive" artists. But again, it's not people's fault, nobody's telling the whole story and the industry doesn't reward "progressive." Find the New York hip hop magazine or radio show that really covers NY hip hop. You might be surprised what you find.

    • Anonymous

      co sign. Listen to all the new rappers from NYC rapping over premo beats or copy cat premo beats think thats its 1994. NYC must switch there style up.

    • Anonymous

      too many people think it because its the truth, New York's sound is dated, period.

    • Manny Faces

      The problem is that you believe that. Either you are simply repeating what you've heard, or your haven't spent any effort to explore hip hop in New York, but either way, it's simply not true. The problem is, too many people think it is, and too many articles like this do nothing to change that perception.

  • D.G

    Hip-hop culture is now a bonified Pop phenomenom. If you turn on the T.V, many of these corporations are using the culture to sell products, services etc. I think Hip-Hop is in a good place because you can remain indpendent and generate some good $. Joey Bada$$, Bronson, Troy Ave, Dza and a host of others are doing their thing and making the music that is true to themselves. Bada$$ has a deal with Ecko, Troy Ave with Adidas and so on. These writers are looking at it from a corporate, mainstream point of view.

  • Anonymous

    You Ross stans are killing me. The dude is just an average down south rapper with alot of hype and an ear for beats thats it. You guys act like hes s lyrical beast or something. You kids these data all rappers have to do these days is throw you a trap beat and a catchy hook and your satisfied. Thats some lazy shit on the rappers part. Ny artist with the exception of a few still know that u gotta have raw dope lyrics no half stepping same goes for any other mc still bringing it from the other coast. Like I said this generation of mcs and fans forgot what the Word bars mean when it comes to rhymes. Just look at the popularity of Ross, waka, gucci mane and others who just suck.

  • son of a sax

    The standards of hiphop have changed tremendously!!! And 1ne of those changes is the quality of music and the emcees job descripiton doesnt require him or her to do as much and work as hard. Now, im not 1ne to throw the baby out with the bath water because there are a few who are truly saying sumthin and deserve that respect. But that breed no longer has the numbers (like they did in the 80's and 90's) So they dont get recognized, let alone even mentioned. And that goes for ANY coast. So, the throne collects dust and remains vacant until we demand more from our artist and the labels that house them

  • Ya'll need to stop focusing on money n business shit

    Nas(still spit as good now as illmatic) Jadakiss (never heard a wack verse) Ghostface (best discography u gonna hear add in the first 2 wu albums and OB4CL) Styles P (had the streets on lock for like 15 years )

  • Hov got y'all

    [Jay-Z:] I be trying to chill, bitches wanna fuck me Every little city I go, fuck me Shawty mustve heard, got the word, I move that D Had it by a bladder, she like "oh I gotta pee" Ran into a Rothko in my restroom Singer slash actress in my bedroom God I have the ticket for a walk through Everything that do is big I talk big money, I talk big homes I sell out arenas, I call that getting dome Million dollar voice, came through phone We heading to the top, if you coming, come on Im Flying out to Pisa, just to get some pizza Fly down to Jamaica, just to roll some reefa Sex on the beach, left love speechless They say that money talk, tell these other niggas speak up Whats up

  • Ree

    Jay-z Said it Best "I DUMB DOWN MY LYRICS TO DOUBLE MY DOLLARS, THEY CRITICIZE ME FOR IT YET! THEY ALL YELL HOLLA" this is all you need to know. If you know anything about New York and Rap Music history...Rappers took they cues from the Hustler the Drug KingPin of New York City Neighborhoods and that was all about MONEY & Empire its the ethos of New York. Jay-z didn't drop the ball he's just New York in a different arena but the same form. King of New York still lives, the people just waiting for the person that has the same ethos that made New York the Birthplace of HipHop. And when he or she comes we'll know.

  • Will

    The king of New York is Joell Ortiz. He's the illest emcee outta there since Rawkus was running shit in the late 90's.

  • Anonymous

    I enjoy these editorials from Omar and Marcus. Good read.

  • Manny Faces

    As a NY hip hop-focused journalist and advocate, forgive me for being underwhelmed. With all due respect, this is just another 10,000-foot-view of a musical, cultural and regional ecosystem that really requires greater understanding and open-mindedness -- not to mention actual working knowledge of the scene it purports to analyze -- than is displayed here. The end result -- that rap has moved on beyond the concept of a "hub" -- is true, but was buried in a bunch of standard issue opinions that really don't delve into the reasons why NY "lost dominance," where we are or what it all means. In doing so, it adds to the ongoing disservice conducted by our "hip hop media," by continuing to downplay and oversimplify the complexity, depth and progressive nature of New York hip hop. To believe that New York hasn't already been "pushing forward and evolving," is a sign of gross misunderstanding of the subject.

  • GHHB

    Good article just what happened to including native New York journalist? Shouldn't they be included in a a discussion about New York hip hop?

  • Mr. Tibbs

    Journalism, news, great article. At the end of the day the NY hip-hop scene is dead because they lost a sound and a identity. Back in the 90's who the best rappers Biggie, Jay-Z and Nas all NY rappers. And they followed greats like Rakim, Big Daddy Kane, Slick Rick, and KRS-One. Where did this long line of great MC's breakdown? Where is the buzz? Mixtapes? This is why the DJ is important and Hot 97 and the rest of them who do they showcase? It amazes me how hard the NY DJ's came down on the NY rappers after "Control" but at the end of the day ya'll have to represent too. If ya'll playing Drake and Wayne and Gucci all day ya'll not reppin and 60% of the downfall is on ya'll too. And no Rick Ross is not on that iconic level of a Jay-Z or a Nas. He's a busta, not a King. If being "King of NY'" was irrelevant then Kendrick wouldn't have said it.

  • Brad Jones

    Hip Hop is in drought of rap kings right now because it's missing a classic album with a great promotion. These new New York artists don't have global appeal that Biggie,Jay-z & 50 Cent had. Nas also seemed to be king of New York in 96 after "It Was Written" dropped, but then Puffy & Bad Boy Records movement took that crown off his head real quick. French Montana had the potential to be a King Of New York, but his album disappointed me and lack that New York sound.

    • lotr7790

      It Was Written is only Nas' second album, and every album after that is better than any biggie album, and everyone forgets DMX's reign as the king

  • lotr7790

    Any one who says Rick Ross is the greatest to ever do it is completely ignorant and not even a fan of rap or hip hop. That said, NaS is the King of NY rap and has always been. I'm a Biggie, but he just can't compare to NaS in anyway. All these new rap fans are bs

    • Anonymous

      A ross groupie is hating on Nas for paying child support? LMAO. I remember when Ross was going to court for not paying for his kids like a true scum bag. His financial records got exposed and his biggest asset was a 5 year old Maybach.

    • Anonymous

      "The same nigga who pretty much got embarrassed on IG and had his parenting skills come into question when his daughter posted a picture of a box of condoms? The same nigga who had to pay alimony, spousal support, AND child support to Kelis, his lazy baby moms? Fuck outta here with that bullshit nigga." Ross got his manhood embarrassed when 50 had his kids out in Vegas at Floyd's mansion clowning on their Daddy with while his pal Puff Daddy sat by, and he did nothing about it! Ross got exposed by one baby momma for being a liar and a fraud, for NOT paying child support and being a dead beat dad! Ross other baby momma is on video all over the internet getting fucked by another nigga. Don't ever compare Nas to Ross.

    • lotr7790

      lol, you're gonna try to shit on nas because he has kids and takes care of them? lol his daughter posted a pic of condoms, hoave you head daughters? nas addressed all that shit and kids are always doing shit like that, all these girls are basically putting porn in ig and facebook every day. And now i truly get know you must be a rick ross jump off groupie, saying nas cant pick beats? you havent even heard illmatic then or any other nas album get the fuck outta nigga u on hiphopdx everyday probably talking shit. NaS is top 3, ask anyone who listens. get outta the mainstream bullshit and listen to shit

    • Rozay O'Donnell

      Nas? You mean the same nigga who can't pick beats to save his life? The same nigga who pretty much got embarrassed on IG and had his parenting skills come into question when his daughter posted a picture of a box of condoms? The same nigga who had to pay alimony, spousal support, AND child support to Kelis, his lazy baby moms? Fuck outta here with that bullshit nigga.

  • steven

    U guys are fucking stupid, Rick Ross never has made a culture defining/changing album his production is super dope, but for y'all to even fathem him bein on par with Biggie is stupid. His life is made up at least a portion of what B.I.G said was believable, no one really believes he was selling 100 kilos of coke or that he knows the notorius Norega, yall prolly think Jusrin Bieber better than Kendrick Lamar as well

    • Anonymous

      Ross wishes he was Biggie, that why he gotta steal his songs for his retail album which is supposed to be his own original creative work.

    • Johnny

      If I'm wrong, recommend me Ross tracks to change my mind...

    • Johnny

      Comparing Ross to biggie, fail. I see the similarity in their delivery, tone of voice and speed of rapping. But that's it. Ready to Die actually had creative flows and thought provoking, personal lyrics.

    • Anonymous

      how can you be a king if you cant go platinum with Jay-Z, Lil Wayne and Kanye on your albums? How can you be a king if you make the same amount of money as Mac Miller who doesn't have 1 gold album.

    • Rozay O'Donnell

      I hate having to repeat myself. Like I said earlier, fuck these old washed up, hardcore NY rappers. Ross is the new Biggie, therefore he is the new king of New York. Now bow your fucking heads to the king and pay homage. #bawse

    • Anonymous

      just ignore the Ross geek, it didn't read the article or he would know this is about New York

  • Anonymous

    Nas lost, he only got 1 mention in the whole article.

  • 614grind

    I wouldn't mind reading a piece from someone who's actually from New York.

  • Anonymous

    >Southern Rap detractors insultingly refer to as being simple It's only insulting because it's true.

  • Level

    A NY MC will probably never hold the thrown again. The South simply has too many artists and too many hits at the moment. The same can be said of MC's from the Wescoast. There are better MC's coming out at the moment from the Westcoast than NY. NY MC's are garbage at the moment, all they do is complain.

  • Anonymous

    Rick Ross is the greatest to ever do it. Line for line he can match Biggie's rhymes and Ross's wordplay is even more intricate at times. He tells us stories that Biggie, Jay, or even Nas could never do. When its years from now people will put Rick Ross on the top of the list as the realest, greatest rapper to ever touch the mic. Mark my words, ROSS = GOAT.

    • Anonymous

      Rick Ross got outshined on every feature on Mastermind. Even Big Sean killed him on his own song so bad they cut his verse out. LMAO.

    • lotr7790

      lol @rozay o'd, usual suspects is rick ross's own song, not nas' so how can he be murdered on his own shit when it isnt even his song? this dude must be 15 or something because anyone that obessed with ross must be listening to rap for like 2 years and only cop the "hot" popular shit.

    • Rozay O'Donnell

      @lotr7790 you must be out your ever loving mind. Ross murders every LOX member on the mic and makes Nas his bitch when they collaborate. Ross owns Nas on his own songs. Remember Usual Suspects? Another case of Nasty Nas getting murked on his own shit.

    • lotr7790

      lol this dude don't even know rick ross and if you do than you must be a fed or CO because that's what rick ross is. Just because he copies the "rapper" lifestyle don't make him one, he's a CO, fed, who can spit mediocre lyrics that are acceptable for todays rap, listen to the radio, 10 or 20 years ago rappers were shitting on ppl. and also ya'll forgot DMX who is the one of the best rappers out of NY and Jadakiss ruins rick ross on everything

    • Rozay O'Donnell

      Nigga, who a troll? Damn sure aint me. I'm Ross' personal friend/close confidante as well as his ghostwriter.

    • Anonymous

      Niggas wasting time on a troll, cmon.

    • Rozay O'Donnell

      Typical young minded rap fan comparing other niggas bank accounts and shit instead of overall skills LOL. Who give a fuck who's richer? Don't nobody give a fuck about that shit. We ain't talking about money, we talking about LEGACIES, and Ross has that because he's the biggest boss thus far.

    • Anonymous

      how does he rule anything if he can't go platinum or make the top 20 on forbes last year? Wiz made twice as much as him. Ross made as much as Mac Miller who doesn't have 1 gold album.

    • Rozay O'Donnell

      Fuck those old washed up NY rappers. Ross rules every region in hip hop.

    • Anonymous

      Get all the way the fuck outta here man. Also this is about NY. Ross can be the king of Miami but no one really cares.

    • Rozay O'Donnell

      PREACH!!! TAKE THESE IGNORANT HEATHENS TO CHURCH!!! RICK ROSS, GREATEST RAPPER OF ALL TIME, GREATEST RAPPER IN HISTORY!! #BAWSE