Ghostface Killah Admits He "Couldn't Stand" Wu-Tang Clan's "8 Diagrams"

Five years and some change after he called it a "bullshit" album, Ghostface Killah's feelings on Wu-Tang Clan's "8 Diagrams" haven't changed. He claims many fans that liked it are "yes men."

Released in December of 2007, 8 Diagrams was the last official Wu-Tang Clan album. While Staten Island, New York emcee veteran Ghostface Killah appeared of our of the album's 16 songs, the Theodore Unit founder admitted that he was not a fan of the product.

In a new interview with XXL magazine, Ghost stressed that the SRC Records release was sub-par. “8 Diagrams, I couldn’t stand it ‘cause I know us, and then I know my man [RZA] even more,” said the G.F.K. “I’m like, ‘Yo, how could you give our fucking people that?’ Now you had people that said, ‘Oh no, I liked it.’ That might be the ‘yes men’ niggas. You know what I mean? Or it’s a miss or something ‘cause I know how we can be. These motherfuckers wanted the skits. They wanted to feel like they at home with us. They wanna feel like, ‘Y’all didn’t hear this in a long time. What y’all got now?’”

The album debuted at #25 on the Top 200 upon release. It was the nine-person (including the late Ol' Dirty Bastard) collective's first album since 2001's Iron Flag.

In the XXL piece, Ghostface explains what he hopes to hear, should Wu-Tang Clan complete their sixth album, which is said to be underway. Ghostface Killah's 10th solo album, Twelve Reasons To Die is releasing April 16 on RZA's Soul Temple Records. The Wu-Tang Abbott is also executive producing.

RELATED: Ghostface Killah Calls Wu-Tang Album "Bullshit"

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88 Comments

  • Anonymous

    its not a wack album, but i do feel what GF is talking about..hopefully better tommorrow does it.

  • Anonymous

    Loved this album & I am not a yes man.

  • Anonymous

    It isnt a wack album but it wasnt a wu at their fully potential album. They (RZA) can do much better.

  • Conducta

    "New York emcee veteran Ghostface Killah appeared of our of the album's 16 songs, the Theodore Unit" WHO The Fuck wrote this shit???

  • Anonymous

    The W and Iron Flag were good albums no filler,wasn't really feeling most of the production and the verses on 8 Diagrams.

  • claaa7

    "8 Diagrams" was a lot better than "Iron Flag", that's for sure. to me "8D" sounded like a real cohessive album; it's pretty much a RZA album, all his vision, and he used the emcees as instrument or samples that he could take and place where he wanted. at least that's what I get from listening to the LP and reading all these interviews with Ghostface, INS, Raekwon, etc. if you like RZA's recent stuff, you'll like "8D"... if not, you'll hate it with a passion.

  • Anonymous

    8 diagrams was dope

  • Gee

    why are all the members of the wu always so bitchy about one another?? More time spent working together and less of the he say she say shit and a dope album could come out!

  • Anonymous

    waiting for the last wu abum

  • dj nemesis

    its a shame noone mentions 421 The Day After, that was a sick album and method man came correct and shut the critics up...pisses me off there was no video for that album

  • dj nemesis

    idk if anyone remembers the Mathematics 8 diagrams mixtape that came out right before the album, had some classic shit on there, i prefer that mixtape then the album...it had some tracks from the album on there

  • Anonymous

    It was not as bad and I think they may have been to afraid of the criticism to bare the thought of not delivering that they didn't give themselves enough credit and instead, allocated it to RZA. It wasn't that bad. It was no classic, and of course everybody anticipates a classic, especially if you have the history you have. But, Stick Me For My Riches, Wolves, and others were very dope. But, all in all, the production was not consistent. Guaranteed, GUARANTEED, if there were more skits that segwayed the CD in it's entirety and gave it that deep resonance that it deserved, it would have been less criticized and what have you.

  • @BafflerMeal

    Listen to Frank Dukes' production on his songs on The Man With the Iron Fists soundtrack, and Madlib's production for his Inspectah Deck/Raekwon mash-up and tell me those two couldn't produce a Wu-sounding album.

  • Drake

    My classic album Take Care was a million times better than Wu Tang Forever. I don't even know who these old has been's are. Are they related to Earth Wind and Fire?

  • Anonymous

    if i was rza id say then you fuckin produce the tracks you ignorant ass dusthead. thats' right you can barely speak english and write sloppier than a lil autistic boy

    • Anonymous

      he's one of the funniest dudes in rap. and has never dropped a wack verse. also has three classic albums. what have you done with your life?

    • Anonymous

      Yet, He's the one keeping the WU flag flying hi while RZA does shitty music / movies.

  • Anonymous

    GFK couldnt stand the album cause ja rule wasnt on it, ja rules presence lights up a room like bob marley lit up the blunt

  • Lil Farrakhan

    Peace to tha Gods and tha Earths! The Time & What Must Be Done every Saturday @ 6pm Central Time at noi.org/thetime. Get civilized! Tell your friends to tell their friends, spread tha word!

  • Anonymous

    GFK is right, that was garbage! Actually almost ALL Wu tang joints have been wack besides Rae's OBFCL2, GFK's catalog and GZA... all other projects have been horrible since 1999. GZA's GrandMasters was one of the WU's solo joints that has been slept on.

    • Anonymous

      The W and Iron Flag were fucking ill. And don't sleep on Masta Killa's first two albums (his new one is garbage)

    • Anonymous

      nice, i was just saying yesterday about that gza box set that grandmasters was way slept on. i personally kinda liked wu's legendary weapons way better than 8 diagrams. it had a bunch of guest mcs on it, but it was pretty solid

    • wu wear

      Muggs is the most slept on producer ever. Grandmasters, Kill Devil Hills, and The Legend of the Mask and the Assassin are all fucking dope as hell.

    • Anonymous

      Yes sir! That WU album is as important as Supreme Clientele but people slept on it because of DJ Muggs production....IMO Muggs influenced RZA... Top 3-4 Wu albums in the last 10 years.. Supreme.... GrandMasters Fishscale And I just might put this new GFK up there with them.

    • talktalkreal

      Thank you brother. NOBODY brings up that GrandMasters album. I think the Grandmasters and this new Ghost's 12 reasons to die are gonna be placed next to Classic Wu releases.

  • gavin

    I swear to god interviewers need to step their game up. 7 years later and they're STILL askin Ghost about 8 Diagrams?

  • IDK

    I don't really agree with GFK when he referred "8 Diagrams" fans as yes men because not everyone will share the same interests as each other. However, I also felt like that album was weak. Personally, I find it a step better than "Iron Flag", but it still fell very short on expectations from the Clan's other three albums. "Enter the Wu-Tang: 36 Chambers" will always be in my top 10 most favorite hip hop albums, "Wu-Tang Forever" will always be my favorite double album, and "The W" will always have a spot in my CD collection. Sucks that I can't say the same for their last two albums. Hopefully their next, and possibly last album, will shun the whole hip hop universe with its greatness.

  • B

    Love Ghost, Love Wu, but Starks is right about 8 Diagrams. A sub par album with a few decent songs, that's it.

  • Mike

    I've been a Wu fan for a long time now and remember when almost everything they put out was a banger. They fell off quite a while back, but there has always been a few gems on each of the their group and solo albums. 8 Diagrams had a few dope tracks, but the album as a whole wasn't that great. I'm not sure what happened since, but almost everything from Cuban Linx II until now has been really good (minus Wu Massacre and some others). Czarface, PWOWR and The Man With The Iron Fists were really dope, while Masta Killah and Cappadonnas new albums were not. Hopefully they pull it all together for the 20th Anniversary album.

  • Sensaye25

    8 Diagrams was ok. It was great, but it wasn't wack. It was better than "The W", but not as good as their other 3. The problem is, these niggas just aren't on the same page anymore. And honestly, I'm starting wonder if Rza had a hidden hand in his production back in the day. It seems like ever since he stopped making beats with 4th Disciple and True Master his beats have gotten worse. Don't get me wrong, I love listening to new Rza material, because it's always creative and different, and there is bound to be some gems in there as well as some duds, but at least it's original. I don't know why these Rza and Dre have seperated themselves from sampling so much. You can sample and still be creative. These keyboard-heavy beats that they make now sound cheesy and rushed to me. With respect to Rza as a great artist and just a brilliant dude, he might need be too cultured at this point to make American Hip-Hop music that people are gonna truly appreciate.

  • Doubl Negative

    Post Wu-Tang Forever Wu made some sub-par LPs that almost tarnished the legendary status of their earlier material. They didn't really recover until Supreme Clientele came out, but between Wu-Tang Forever and Clientele their best music was tracks produced by people other than RZA. I love Cappa's Pillage record, but the tracks from that period that stand out are Premo's Above the Clouds with Deck, True Master by Pete Rock and Deck again, another Pete track, Sneakers on Rae's second record and the Extra P produced track the Heist off Busta's album featuring Rae and Ghost. Thare were a couple Wu joints that were cool, the RZA/Deck track on Pun's album, their song on the Belly soundtrack and Lay Your Hammer from Flex's Vol. 3 mixtape, but none of this materialized to a fully fledged classic album. I'm a die hard Wu and 8 Diagrams was bullshit, but I'm liking the sound of Ghost's upcoming LP and CZARFACE was dope too.

  • yourdad

    lol, love it... finally, even an official WU member realizes what that album was. I remember all the dick-riders saying "this shit is ill", "people are too ignorant to realize RZA's beats on the album were way ahead of it's time so people will appreciate it years down the road"... GTFOH man! that shit was boring, no energy, the clan's heart was not in it and you could tell by their verse's.. niggas needed a paycheck so they dropped that garbage. Hopefully this time around they do it the way it should be done. For the records, 36 Chamberz and Forever are the true WU albums... everything, and I mean EVERYTHING after that was straight garbage.

    • Anonymous

      Haha you're calling The W and Iron Flag garbage? You're not a true Wu fan. You're also calling classics such as Supreme Clientele, Fishscale, Grandmasters, No Said Date, OB4CL2 garbage.... just no, you're completely wrong.

  • william Seth

    Ya know, I hate the fucking articles....this interview was probably conducted months ago, I'm sure more was discussed. They have been working on the new LP, and I'm sure all members are working to make it top notch. All this article does is throw a wrench in their program, I'm pretty sure Ghost isn't to happy about this article. It's lame sensationalism.

  • Anonymous

    3 tracks that's it

  • Drake

    I think everything after 36 Chambers was Wu doo.

    • Anonymous

      Wu-Tang Forever is better than 36 Chambers to me. Everyone has their own opinion, but personally I think Forever is superior.

    • 36 Chambers

      GJ is right, Forever is pretty good but 36 Chambers is on a whole other level. Wu has made ONE classic album. Just like most hip hop acts.

    • GJGE

      Lol, Wu-Tang Forever was decent but nothing more. So no, LMAO I can't believe you actually think Forever is anywhere near one of the greatest Hip-Hop albums.

    • Anonymous

      you could still bang WU Forever today and it's still ahead of Time.

    • 614grind@grind

      Nah. Wu Tang Forever was one of the illest Hip Hop albums of all time.

  • IMhO

    trust me. any wu head knows 8 diagrams was shit. this next wu project needs to be raw as fuck

  • dentaldamboy

    Every album is bullshit comared to the YMCMB compilation ablums.

    • Anonymous

      YMCMB compilation albums? You mean those weed plates and frisbees? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!! Good joke.

  • huge wu fan

    I'm sure RZA had more time on his hands in the 90s, but if he cares about the Wu like he did and used to, he will make damn sure this album is damn near perfect before it releases. If it does. And I want it to because imo they are the biggest impacting hip hop group. Everybody needs/wants this album. Hopefully RZA ain't on some overreaching for his own good shit.

  • Anonymous

    Ghost shouldn't feel that bad about the album, that year didn't have any good albums. FROM NOBODY!

  • huge wu fan

    Ima be honest. I am a HUGE WU FAN. Like HUGE!. But I am no yes man. I have all their studio albums and I must say, shit started slipping for RZA when his basement flooded or whatever and lost mad beats. His asr-10 beats were imo all superb and was that "wu" sound everybody was fans of and familiar with. The first 5 solos and enter the 36 chambers are classics. You can always go back, feel like you're hearing it for the first time. The skits are great, beats are great, grimy. Wu-Tang forever is my fav 2 cd hip hop album, but some beats are there are TRASH. LIke wtf were you thinking about putting it out for. I enjoy the W, Iron Flag, and 8 diagrams. But unfortunately, I just don't go back to those albums like I do with the first solos and first 2 wu albums. And everybody knows Supreme Clientele helped them out. They just need to all really get in the studio together, and work together on each song slowly. RZA's 5 year plan worked amazingly 92-97. But I don't think this last (hopefully not) album to close the chapter should only be in his hands. Now he messes with the Beat Thang, and Maschine and etc, fuck out of here. 8 diagrams had some corny ass drum kits and sounds. Wu-Tang sound is known to be raw and grimy i'm not saying for him to use the same drums and etc, but he's got to put his heart and soul into this album if he really wants this album to hit hard and stand time. No corny ass shit like get em out ur way pa. starter, weak spot. Everything else was nice. Of course nothing is perfect, but his production on the first 2 wu albums, and rae ghost and gza's solo, imo, out-shined every other producer in the game. I know they can do it, but how bad do they want to make this album.

  • Anonymous

    It had some gems, but it definitely wasn't up to standard

  • Anonymous

    8 diagrams was an absolute fail, but wu massacre was a nice album, just nothing too spectacular!

  • Optimus Rhyme

    I bought 8 Diagrams when it dropped, expecting something great cuz Iron Flag was weak too. Ghost is right. 8 Diagrams was/is awful. Rza was thinking on some other shit back then. He was on a totally different page than the rest of the group. If they put something new, I hope they do it right. They should have Rae and Ghost executive produce it. Those two have kept the Wu on the map and have put out the best product recently.

  • @BafflerMeal

    'Ghostface Killah appeared of our of the album's 16 songs' Huh?

    • Shun

      I think its supposed to be 'appeared on four of the album's 16 songs'. I guess no one proof reads the post before it goes up lol

  • Anonymous

    I agree, it was better then wu massacre...That album was a sloppy cut and paste of bad, old verses and songs. The only song on 8 diagrams I didn't like was "wolves", the rest was hot.

  • Anonymous

    A FULL WU ALBUM IS ALL I WANT

  • Black De La Rocha

    "New York emcee veteran Ghostface Killah appeared of our of the album's 16 songs" ... What? Do you guys proofread your articles at all?

  • foreal

    i dont think it is smart to call fans who liked a product that you worked on and put out "yes men". I didnt like 8 diagrams but if he was so opposed to the album he could've took a stand and not been on it.

    • Anonymous

      then that would've casued friction within the group something Wu says they always try to avoid or let get out to the public

  • abu_maryam

    I liked 8 Diagrams, but I am not a yes man. 8 Diagrams was way better than Wu Massacre. And no, we do not want bullshit skits, just dope songs. I love GFK's music, but come on, he is just running his mouth here. Let it go, Ghost, just make a good new album.

  • Anonymous

    cant wait for the new wu tape

  • Anonymous

    lol at being yes men just cause you have a different taste of music than him. 8 Diagrams had some good shit on it.

  • Anonymous

    Ghost is mostly wrong here... Wu Massacre sucked... Allowing your snitch manager to put fat fuck Joell Ortiz on "Apollo Kids" (where he got destroyed by Black Though, hah) was a mistake also... RZA and GZA are musical has fucking has been, correct, but he had a some moments on "8D"... Why doesn't Ghost talk about his gay son more, yo? Kunta fly shit!